Assistance Needed for my Russian Tortoise with a Tumor

[SkygreyJordans]

I hope this message finds you well. I am reaching out to this knowledgeable community in a time of need regarding my tortoise who has been diagnosed with a tumor. Your expertise and guidance would be immensely appreciated.

Observing unusual behavior, I promptly took my tortoise to the vet for an examination, which included an X-ray and pathology test. Now, I'm seeking advice on the possibility of removing the tumor. Cost and distance are not barriers—I am determined to do whatever it takes for the well-being of my beloved pet.

Below, I will share all relevant information provided by the vet. I reside in Northern California and would be grateful for any insights or recommendations you can offer.

Thank you sincerely for your time and assistance.

 

[wellington]

Post pics of the tortoise.
Most brumating tortoises, Russians, at this time of the year are all slowing down, not eating much of anything and sleeping a lot. They are getting themselves ready to brumate. Some people will brumate, others don't. I don't. So lights need to be on longer, brighter and night temps not go lower than 70.
Maybe @Tom can help further. I only have a phone to read over your vet records. Which isn't easy.
I couldn't find where it mentioned a tumor. In your own words, can you explain it better. Where it is, how big, etc.

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, I'd like to see pictures too.

 

[Tom]

I hope this message finds you well. I am reaching out to this knowledgeable community in a time of need regarding my tortoise who has been diagnosed with a tumor. Your expertise and guidance would be immensely appreciated.

Observing unusual behavior, I promptly took my tortoise to the vet for an examination, which included an X-ray and pathology test. Now, I'm seeking advice on the possibility of removing the tumor. Cost and distance are not barriers—I am determined to do whatever it takes for the well-being of my beloved pet.

Below, I will share all relevant information provided by the vet. I reside in Northern California and would be grateful for any insights or recommendations you can offer.

Thank you sincerely for your time and assistance.

Several problems are immediately obvious. I say these things to help you. I don't want you to feel insulted or belittled. No one is born knowing this stuff, and if nobody tells you what is wrong, you can't fix it.

Tortoises should NEVER live as pairs. Russians are probably number one on this list for all tortoise species. Followed closely by California DTs and sulcatas. Living together as a pairs causes terrible chronic stress, which hammers appetite and the immune system.

Your enclosure is a quarter of the size it needs to be for a single tortoises. Tortoises need very large enclosure to remain healthy.

Sand should never be used as a substrate for tortoises. I know I know... People all over the internet say its fine. Its not fine. They are wrong and they just don't know it yet, just like I didn't used to know that, until I learned it the hard way. Don't use any sand. Orchid bark works best. Coco coir is fine too if its kept damp and firmly hand packed.

Your diet is not adequate. Kale and lettuce aren't good tortoise foods. Carrots and bell peppers too. Not good. Years of an insufficient diet will eventually catch up to them and cause problems. Your tortoise should be eating mostly broadleaf weeds, with some leaves and flowers mixed in for variety. Mallow, sow thistle, dandelion, bristly ox tongue, prickly lettuce, clover, brand and narrow leaf plantain, mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus and lavatera leaves, etc... The list is endless and it doesn't include lettuce or carrots.

Take some time to read through this thread at least a couple of times. Take it all in. Look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom. All the correct heating and lighting, substrate, housing, and diet is explained in detail in these threads. Most of the care info from vets, pet stores, the internet, FB, YT, and other sources is all wrong. These threads will give you the right info so you can begin making the changes that will keep your tortoises healthy and well.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

If you can locate a good exotics (reptile) or tortoise specialist vet, that would be best. It's immediately obvious to me that this is a cat and dog vet, just from the top of the first page where it says: Species: Reptile. Breed: Russian Tortoise. That is laughable.
Tom has given you the very best advice. Follow it carefully for now, to immediately begin to improve the health and possible longevity of Timmy! Some pictures of Timmy if possible, would be great. Thank you!

 

[SkygreyJordans]

The photos of Timmy are just taken this morning, you can see the mass is pushing his head to the side. I added the photo of both of them to show it looks like they are ok together but if you still think they should be separated I can get another enclosure. Also to add they have been together for 4+ years.

 

[SkygreyJordans]

If you can locate a good exotics (reptile) or tortoise specialist vet, that would be best. It's immediately obvious to me that this is a cat and dog vet, just from the top of the first page where it says: Species: Reptile. Breed: Russian Tortoise. That is laughable.
Tom has given you the very best advice. Follow it carefully for now, to immediately begin to improve the health and possible longevity of Timmy! Some pictures of Timmy if possible, would be great. Thank you!

added photos thanks for the help!

 

[SkygreyJordans]

Several problems are immediately obvious. I say these things to help you. I don't want you to feel insulted or belittled. No one is born knowing this stuff, and if nobody tells you what is wrong, you can't fix it.

Tortoises should NEVER live as pairs. Russians are probably number one on this list for all tortoise species. Followed closely by California DTs and sulcatas. Living together as a pairs causes terrible chronic stress, which hammers appetite and the immune system.

Your enclosure is a quarter of the size it needs to be for a single tortoises. Tortoises need very large enclosure to remain healthy.

Sand should never be used as a substrate for tortoises. I know I know... People all over the internet say its fine. Its not fine. They are wrong and they just don't know it yet, just like I didn't used to know that, until I learned it the hard way. Don't use any sand. Orchid bark works best. Coco coir is fine too if its kept damp and firmly hand packed.

Your diet is not adequate. Kale and lettuce aren't good tortoise foods. Carrots and bell peppers too. Not good. Years of an insufficient diet will eventually catch up to them and cause problems. Your tortoise should be eating mostly broadleaf weeds, with some leaves and flowers mixed in for variety. Mallow, sow thistle, dandelion, bristly ox tongue, prickly lettuce, clover, brand and narrow leaf plantain, mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus and lavatera leaves, etc... The list is endless and it doesn't include lettuce or carrots.

Take some time to read through this thread at least a couple of times. Take it all in. Look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom. All the correct heating and lighting, substrate, housing, and diet is explained in detail in these threads. Most of the care info from vets, pet stores, the internet, FB, YT, and other sources is all wrong. These threads will give you the right info so you can begin making the changes that will keep your tortoises healthy and well.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for the help I will start to implement these changes today. One question I don't think you can buy the food you listed at the store. Do you have a link to somewhere online I can order it or do you just need to go outside and pick the food?

 

[SkygreyJordans]

Yes, I'd like to see pictures too.

Posted Pictures below Thanks for your support!

 

[SkygreyJordans]

Post pics of the tortoise.
Most brumating tortoises, Russians, at this time of the year are all slowing down, not eating much of anything and sleeping a lot. They are getting themselves ready to brumate. Some people will brumate, others don't. I don't. So lights need to be on longer, brighter and night temps not go lower than 70.
Maybe @Tom can help further. I only have a phone to read over your vet records. Which isn't easy.
I couldn't find where it mentioned a tumor. In your own words, can you explain it better. Where it is, how big, etc.

Posted Pictures below Thanks for your support!

 

[SinLA]

Your photos of the two of them are showing one bullying the other. They need to be separated 100%.

I'll defer to others about the mass

 

[wellington]

The photos of Timmy are just taken this morning, you can see the mass is pushing his head to the side. I added the photo of both of them to show it looks like they are ok together but if you still think they should be separated I can get another enclosure. Also to add they have been together for 4+ years.

The one is trying to bite the other and get on top of him or pushed into a corner, that is NOT okay. That is bullying and aggression and plain stress! Just being in a pair is stress and could be deadly.
Follow Toms info ASAP.
As for the tumor, if you can find a reptile vet that has worked on tortoise, putting them under and done surgeries on them, then I would go for it. I wouldn't if I couldn't find an experienced reptile vet

 

[Tom]

Thank you for the help I will start to implement these changes today. One question I don't think you can buy the food you listed at the store. Do you have a link to somewhere online I can order it or do you just need to go outside and pick the food?

You have to grow those foods or scrounge them. Or both.

You can use grocery store foods too, but favor the better ones and add in some good amendments to them. All of that is explained in the two threads. Questions are welcome.

 

[TammyJ]

The absolute first thing that needs to be done is to separate these tortoises and keep them separated always! They are both suffering from being together. This is NOT love.

 

[SkygreyJordans]

The one is trying to bite the other and get on top of him or pushed into a corner, that is NOT okay. That is bullying and aggression and plain stress! Just being in a pair is stress and could be deadly.
Follow Toms info ASAP.
As for the tumor, if you can find a reptile vet that has worked on tortoise, putting them under and done surgeries on them, then I would go for it. I wouldn't if I couldn't find an experienced reptile vet

They were sleeping but thanks for the advice

 

[SinLA]

They were sleeping but thanks for the advice

Look, I understand stuff like this is hard to hear, but one tortoise, sleeping on top of, near, snuggling with, anything like that is actually aggression. It would be cute if it were happening with mammals, but with reptiles, it’s a form of aggression and stress.

 

[wellington]

They were sleeping but thanks for the advice

The one looked like his mouth was open. But either way, sleeping like that is a show of dominance. But I do think you get it, how bad it is for them to be housed together.

 

[TammyJ]

The one looked like his mouth was open. But either way, sleeping like that is a show of dominance. But I do think you get it, how bad it is for them to be housed together.

It's not easy for humans to understand that reptiles do NOT "cuddle"! Any appearance of "cuddling" in reptiles is always oppression/dominance, even to the point where they have both fallen asleep stressing out each other!

 

[wellington]

It's not easy for humans to understand that reptiles do NOT "cuddle"! Any appearance of "cuddling" in reptiles is always oppression/dominance, even to the point where they have both fallen asleep stressing out each other!

For sure. Just take a look on FB. Won't take long there to understand how so many people not only don't get it, but doesn't do enough research to learn.