Advice for West Hermann table

[DeathMetalTort]

Hello! New member here. I’m still researching and planning things at the minute and slowly gathering supplies but have some questions;

I was going to build a box L1200XW600XH300 as per a recommendation. I was thinking of getting the Arcadia T5 pro kit 6% Forest and putting it along the long edge of the table. Would 24w or 39w be the better option. I also noticed that the correct distance for a Hermann would be roughly 15” som I’m guessing instead of building it 300mm high (12”) by the time I’ve factored in the sub, the height of the tortoise and the edge of the bulb, something like 18” would be better.

I’m in the UK so we have shitty winters. I was planning on getting a CHE to regulate night time temp housed in an Arcadia reflector clamp lamp. I’ve ordered 2 of these (1 for the basking light also). These are my 2 and only purchases so far but everything is gunna get run through a dimmer/thermostat. I was thinking, putting the CHE one end and the basking light the other suspended on an L bracket and then just putting some Perspex in the middle (a safe distance from the lights to try and retain what humidity I can).

As I said, I’m still researching and planning and won’t be getting my first tort for at least a few months. I just want to gather as much info as I can and bounce some ideas off of you guys as after a week or so of research this seems to me to be the tortoise Mecca and I can see myself spending a lot of time on here!

Thanks in advance.

 

[LJL1982]

What size tortoise are you getting? The size seems very small...might be OK for a hatchling but will soon outgrow it.

An large juvenile or adult really needs 4ft x 8ft (32sq ft) and what you just suggested is 4ft x 2ft (8sq ft) which is a lot smaller and in line with many of the commercial tortoise tables sold on Amazon etc which can only really house a hatchling a short length of time.

There have been a few people struggling to fit lighting into such small enclosures (especially when hide space is taken out of those square feet) and are finding its difficult to differentiate between warm and cool spaces.

 

[Tom]

Hello! New member here. I’m still researching and planning things at the minute and slowly gathering supplies but have some questions;

I was going to build a box L1200XW600XH300 as per a recommendation. I was thinking of getting the Arcadia T5 pro kit 6% Forest and putting it along the long edge of the table. Would 24w or 39w be the better option. I also noticed that the correct distance for a Hermann would be roughly 15” som I’m guessing instead of building it 300mm high (12”) by the time I’ve factored in the sub, the height of the tortoise and the edge of the bulb, something like 18” would be better.

I’m in the UK so we have shitty winters. I was planning on getting a CHE to regulate night time temp housed in an Arcadia reflector clamp lamp. I’ve ordered 2 of these (1 for the basking light also). These are my 2 and only purchases so far but everything is gunna get run through a dimmer/thermostat. I was thinking, putting the CHE one end and the basking light the other suspended on an L bracket and then just putting some Perspex in the middle (a safe distance from the lights to try and retain what humidity I can).

As I said, I’m still researching and planning and won’t be getting my first tort for at least a few months. I just want to gather as much info as I can and bounce some ideas off of you guys as after a week or so of research this seems to me to be the tortoise Mecca and I can see myself spending a lot of time on here!

Thanks in advance.

Hello and welcome. Are you getting an adult, or a hatchling? Different advice for each.

A baby will do better in a closed vivarium, and the size you are making will be fine for a while. And adult can live in a large open table, but it will need to be around 122x244cm.

This is not a forest tortoise. I'd get the 12% HO Arcadia tube, and the short one is fine. You don't need UV all over the whole enclosure. It will need to be mounted around 46cm above the tortoise, directly overhead, not on the side. A UV meter will be needed to confirm the mounting height.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Most of the care info you find outside of this forum is all the same old wrong info. Pet shops, FB, YT, and most vets will all give you the same terrible guidelines and advice. Here is the correct care info. Read through this at least a couple of times, and then feel free to ask loads of questions.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[DeathMetalTort]

Thank you both for your response. I was planning on getting a West Hermann hatchling and having it in there for at least the first year. Would that size be okay?

As for the lighting, I was doing to build an overhanging ledge all the way along one side and mount the light to that so it would be facing straight down. I thought at the distance I was going to use that the 6% would suffice because of the UV at sub level would be about 3.5. I’m guessing that’s not quite how it works then

Any recommendations for a Vivarium? Size and what not?

Thanks for the link, I’ll have a good read!

 

[Tom]

Thank you both for your response. I was planning on getting a West Hermann hatchling and having it in there for at least the first year. Would that size be okay?

As for the lighting, I was doing to build an overhanging ledge all the way along one side and mount the light to that so it would be facing straight down. I thought at the distance I was going to use that the 6% would suffice because of the UV at sub level would be about 3.5. I’m guessing that’s not quite how it works then

Any recommendations for a Vivarium? Size and what not?

Thanks for the link, I’ll have a good read!

That size will be great for a hatchling and should last a year or two depending on growth rate.

A viv would make temperature and humidity maintenance MUCH easier and generally provides more favorable, stable growing conditions for a baby. Also saves a ton on the electric bill, if that is a factor for you. Trying to heat an open topped tortoise table is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. It doesn't work.

Your idea pop a 6% bulb at a closer distance might work, but I would not attempt it without a Solarmeter 6.5. You will need to know how much UV is hitting the tortoise. Too much can be as bad or worse than too little.

Western hermanni are exceptionally beautiful tortoises, so I hope you will post lots of pics for us when the time comes.

Please be aware that the pet shops in your country will sell you all the wrong stuff and tell you all the wrong things. It is like that here too, but different wrong products here. For example, there is a substrate commonly sold in your country by "Pets At Home" that is made of soil and sand, both of which should never be used for tortoise substrate, and they put little white bits of calcium in it. Soil might be made of toxic elements and sand is a serious skin and eye irritant as well as an impaction risk. Why on earth would anyone want to encourage a tortoise to eat sandy substate to satisfy its calcium cravings? That is lunacy, yet they sell it all over the UK. Be careful who you listen to. FB and YT are full of all sort of wrong info like this too. I'm glad you found us, and your new tortoise will be too.

 

[DeathMetalTort]

Yeah thinking about it, closed would be much easier to regulate like you say. I’ll keep an eye out for a decent sized viv then.

Luckily i’m not a fan of social media or watching YouTube vids for information. Im more of a ‘wall of text’ learner. Yes I’ve read all about how off the mark pet shops can be and dangerous pre made subs. It’s unbelievable that this sort of information goes on in this day and age!

I’ve read about the solar meter 6.5 and will definitely be getting one for set up. Expensive but wouldn’t be able to rest at ease not knowing if UV levels are correct.

I think if I’ve got a year or 2 to get something else set up then that’d be great. I didn’t realise the minimum was 8x4 feet for indoors. Think I’m gunna have to start doing my research for outdoors as well!

Thanks again!

 

[Tom]

Yeah thinking about it, closed would be much easier to regulate like you say. I’ll keep an eye out for a decent sized viv then.

Luckily i’m not a fan of social media or watching YouTube vids for information. Im more of a ‘wall of text’ learner. Yes I’ve read all about how off the mark pet shops can be and dangerous pre made subs. It’s unbelievable that this sort of information goes on in this day and age!

I’ve read about the solar meter 6.5 and will definitely be getting one for set up. Expensive but wouldn’t be able to rest at ease not knowing if UV levels are correct.

I think if I’ve got a year or 2 to get something else set up then that’d be great. I didn’t realise the minimum was 8x4 feet for indoors. Think I’m gunna have to start doing my research for outdoors as well!

Thanks again!

Sounds like you already knew the important points that we try share with new members. You are way ahead.

The Solarmeters aren't cheap, but neither are replacement bulbs. The manufacturers want to sell more product so they tell you to replace the bulb with a new one every 6 months or 12 months. When run for only a few hours mid day, most bulbs will last for years, and still be putting out strong UV. The cost savings for purchase, tax and shipping of new bulbs can really start to add up, not to mention how wasteful it is to throw away a perfectly good working bulb if it is still producing adequate UV levels.

 

[DeathMetalTort]

Yeah every new venture I go into I do a couple months of a research usually a few hours a day so there’s no way I’ll be pulling the trigger before I’m absolutely 100%. I will get everything set up and run some tests over night and during the day to make sure everything is optimal. I will keep you updated in the following months and direct any questions your way!