Adult sulcata shell too dry? Deep fissures between scutes?

AndreavonW

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Hello!

I’ve been using this forum for reference for some time now but I finally have a question of my own. I own a sulcata who is about 8 years old and had a beautiful shell up until last winter.

Disclaimer: Sorry for the novel but I want to answer as many questions you might naturally have before you can give any sound advice. :)

I’ve just moved to north Georgia from Nebraska a couple of years ago. In Nebraska over the winter I kept “Hank” in a large stock tank with a heating element in my relatively warm basement. His shell has always been beautiful.

I feed him various greens and veggies and Mazuri diet. While the weather was nice we got him out in our half acre back yard to graze and catch some sun as much as possible. The nights have turned and the days have hardly been over 60F so we keep him mostly in his new enclosure.

His “new” (meaning since the move) puts him in a garage (no artificial heat aside from his heating element… I wish the South had a better appreciation for basements ;) ) the substrate is cypress mulch and he has a red heat lamp on the enclosed side and just a white flood light on the open side. (See pictures.) He has a water dish that is large enough for him to lie in (not pictured). It started last winter and his shell has mostly healed over the summer but already, after two weeks full time in his enclosure it has started again.

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His scutes are experiencing what looks like rapid growth/separating and deep fissures. I have begun bathing him once a week (so he is in the tub right now for the second time in two weeks) and have attempted to apply olive oil and then buff it off with a soft cloth. I’ve not seen a difference yet, but surely it doesn’t help overnight. I’ve also considered coconut oil or purchasing vitashell. I don’t want to slather the kid once a week in this junk. I want to know what is causing the problem.

My hypothesis is that he spends most of his time under the red heat lamp and has since grown since the enclosure was built. (There is a little more than 12” when he is standing between him and the light.) I think it’s drying him out too much. What is the solution? Build up the enclosed side to be higher so the light isn’t directly on top of him but still keeping him warm? A different heat source? I’m not interested in pig blankets, but maybe a ceramic element? I can’t figure out a way to add humidity since the housing is in an open environment. Maybe even a different type of substrate? I just don’t know. Perhaps it is something I haven’t even considered or don’t know about.

Aside from all of this he is alert, active, and eats well.

Any advice or input would be beyond greatly appreciated. This big guy is my baby and I’m kind of freaking out. :(

<3 Thanks in advance!!! <3

-Andrea

P.S. These photos were taken just moments ago after I took him out of his bath, so you'll see a bit of water of him. I did the best I could getting clear pictures but this boy is a mover and shaker! :cool:

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Tom

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Looks like the typical carapace desiccation caused by hot overhead lights. A CHE will do the same thing. Have you used a temp gun to check the temp under those lights at tortoise shell height? It might simply be too hot.

Why are you not interested in pig blankets? This might be the perfect solution for your issue. They are safe, durable and reliable.

I admire that you are so attentive, aware and caring about the fine details of your tortoises well being. Welcome to the forum.
 

AndreavonW

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Tom said:
Looks like the typical carapace desiccation caused by hot overhead lights. A CHE will do the same thing. Have you used a temp gun to check the temp under those lights at tortoise shell height? It might simply be too hot.

Why are you not interested in pig blankets? This might be the perfect solution for your issue. They are safe, durable and reliable.

I admire that you are so attentive, aware and caring about the fine details of your tortoises well being. Welcome to the forum.

Hello, Tom! Thank you for your kind words, identifying the problem, and your suggestions!

I’ve not tried a heat gun but his heat lamp is on a dimmer switch and the thermometer is up high near the light but about a foot away. His high for today was 82F. The thermometer system I use is a digital thermometer with the outdoor sensor in the heated side and the indoor sensor higher up on the open side in the "coldest" spot in his tank. I will try to get my hands on a heat gun, though!

Pig blankets freak me out. :( A very close friend was rehabbing raccoon cubs and his heating pad shorted out while he was at work and killed the whole litter. It was horrifying and has sincerely scared me away from pig blankets since!
 

mike taylor

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I use a heater from Walmart oil filled . But my tort is outside in is enclosure all year . Have you seen Toms threads on outdoor heated boxes. You guy is big enough to say in one . Maybe Tom can post the link . I would put a thermometer at the shell hight to make sure the temperature is not to hot and burning him . You need to trap some humidity in his enclosure to keep him from drying out . Mount your lights from something and cover the box with some plastic. Mist it daily. This is what my sulcata lives in . He will come out eat then back inside to warm up . It has a heater and a thermostat set at 80 degrees. I built a shelf in side and put bowels of water on it to hold humidity and I got this information from Tom. It works awesome Harry seems very happy with it .
 

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Tom

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AndreavonW,

I too saw some problems like that with heat mats in the past. Since that time I've had many conversations with Craig Kane, the owner of Kane Manufacturing who designs and makes the Kane heat mats. About 3 years ago he changed his design and started embedding secondary safety themrmostats into the structure of the pad its self. They can no longer over heat no matter what anyone does or doesn't do. I've been using them in many applications both indoors and out since then with no issues at all. No one I know of has had any issues at all with the new pads. They work perfectly and they come with a rheostat control too. I think one of these might serve your purposes well.
 

sibi

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Hi and welcome to the forum. I too had the same problem with two of my sullies. I would measure the heat on their carapace with my heat gun because it looked like the shell was drying out only along the growth lines. I was able to correct the problem once I adjusted the heat lamps. Btw, Hank is gorgeous. Love the bathroom pic:)
 

AndreavonW

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Tom and Sylvia,
Thank you for your replies!

I bought a temp gun after work. Hank's carapace clocked in at 94F and the area right under the light was 110F!! I never thought to get a gun to read his temps! I'm going to adjust the dimmer switch and try and get his carapace to the low 80s. Does that sound reasonable?

Tom - Thank you for that information on Kane heat mats! If simply adjusting the temperature doesn't work I will look into those specifically! What a piece of mind!

Sylvia - Thank you for the compliment! Hank is my baby! Hah!
 

BeeBee*BeeLeaves

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Welcome AndreavonW! I love that you are so attentive of your sulcata. And on it when the experts give input. Your baby is lucky to have such a caring owner. You rock! : )
 

TommyZ

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Hi Andrea and welcome! You are in very good hands with the folks above. Best wishes and again, welcome.
 

sibi

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I'm so glad you got that temp gun. I'm sure that you'll be able to get the temp down to about 95-100 under the lamp. Remember, the overall temp in the enclosure should be no lower than 80 degrees. But, under the heat lamp (basking light) temps should be around 95-100. Temps of 110+ is too hot, like you found out. But 90-100 is normal for a basking temp, not 80.
AndreavonW said:
Tom and Sylvia,
Thank you for your replies!

I bought a temp gun after work. Hank's carapace clocked in at 94F and the area right under the light was 110F!! I never thought to get a gun to read his temps! I'm going to adjust the dimmer switch and try and get his carapace to the low 80s. Does that sound reasonable?

Tom - Thank you for that information on Kane heat mats! If simply adjusting the temperature doesn't work I will look into those specifically! What a piece of mind!

Sylvia - Thank you for the compliment! Hank is my baby! Hah!
 

AndreavonW

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BeeBee*BeeLeaves said:
Welcome AndreavonW! I love that you are so attentive of your sulcata. And on it when the experts give input. Your baby is lucky to have such a caring owner. You rock! : )

Thank you so much! It's very nice to meet you! :)


TommyZ said:
Hi Andrea and welcome! You are in very good hands with the folks above. Best wishes and again, welcome.

Thank you for the warm welcome! It is much appreciated! :)


sibi said:
I'm so glad you got that temp gun. I'm sure that you'll be able to get the temp down to about 95-100 under the lamp. Remember, the overall temp in the enclosure should be no lower than 80 degrees. But, under the heat lamp (basking light) temps should be around 95-100. Temps of 110+ is too hot, like you found out. But 90-100 is normal for a basking temp, not 80.

Thank you for the verification of the temp ranges! I'm still very happy that you both talked me into a temp gun! How freakin' handy!

I'm going to try to keep the temps under control and monitor the problem areas. Hopefully this works! How nice would an easy fix be? :)

Thanks again for all of your help!!!
 

Tom

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You want to measure the temp at tortoise height. Get a rock or a cinder block and prop it up so that it sits at the same height as your tortoises carapace. Let it bake under that heat bulb for a couple of hours. When you measure it with your temp gun it should be around 95-100. Raise or lower the bulb to get this temp. This is the problem with using overhead incandescent bulbs with large tortoises. When the temp is warm enough, but not too hot on the top, the bottom of the tortoise is now not going to get warm enough. The easy solution is to use a bulb of some sort on top and a heat mat underneath. This way the tort is warm enough all the way through, but you aren't overheating the top.
 

sibi

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I'm for a heat mat! I just bought two big ones for my babies. I got the Kane brand with the thermostat. This should last them for some time. I have the shed all done. I'm not the greatest when it comes to decor. So, i just set their mats on separate corners, and you'll love what i did with my heater. I'll be posting pics as soon as i get back from my husband's business trip...I get to go along:)

Btw, Andrea, Tom taught me most of what I know today, including the temp gun thingy.
 

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