New owner of large sulcatas

wellington · Jan 18, 2024

EppsDynasty said:
Like you said not alone. I have yet to see a tort eat hay with nothing else and be healthy. I have yet to see a tort eat what is needed if fed hay. Stalks, Stems there is alot that they will not eat. There is only some they will eat. Again in my infancy of tort care but not a fan of HAY. On farms hay is given as a end all food, not as a part of a complete diet.
Not sure how many Feed Stores there are in Chicago but here they're every where. You can go to 2 feed stores a block apart and buy a bail of hay. The 2 bails will be quite different in content. EXAMPLE: The last 2 or 3 cuts on an Alfalfa field will be higher in "WEEDS" than Alfalfa. As other Grasses (Weeds) start to grow within the field they are cut and bailed as well as the Alfalfa.

No one said this is the only item to be fed. I believe, no I know, I said that exact, that it's not the only thing to be fed. I also know I mentioned orchard hay as the best to feed Weeds etc in hay is not a bad thing as long as they are safe. Most likely they are, as if it's safe for a horse or cow to eat, it's likely safe for tortoises.
Just take it as you learned something knew today and take advantage of it. No need to feel offended that you didn't know. That's how we learn. We are all wrong at some point, more than once.

Tom · Jan 18, 2024

EppsDynasty said:
This 1 thing really gets me. When you throw down a flake do you leave them alone for the day with no other food? ......... When ever someone new ask about feeding hay and has a farm what they USUALLY mean is that. Feed a flake and walk away. I agree Hay is a good PART of a Land Giants Diet. I could be wrong in this situation, maybe it's only a part of the diet, but thats not what was asked. It brings up visions of a large sulcata on a FARM in a Horse pen with a flake of hay on the ground. Sorry.

Yes. Correct. I throw down a plain dry whole flake for adult sulcatas. They eat it all up over the course of a few days and then I throw down another. That is all an adult sulcata "needs". I like to feed other foods too, but grass hay alone will sustain them. It makes caring for them soooooo easy. Same as I do for the donkey, horses, goats, etc...

When rain is coming, I let them eat it up and then put out a fresh flake after the rain is done. If the hay gets rained on, I rake it up and chuck it within 24 hours to prevent mold. We get zero rain from March/April until December, so this makes it easy to go on vacation for a couple of weeks in summer. The tortoises come and go at will from their burrows, and they can graze on their hay all day.

One breeder in AZ with hundreds of sulcatas in pens that are several acres each just throws down whole bales.

wellington · Jan 18, 2024

Btw, the OP said nothing to give the impression that he's going to throw hay and that's it. They simply asked, how often do you feed hay and do you just leave it out for them to eat when they want. I think you are making judgments before understanding what's being asked.

BajatheChickenMan · Jan 18, 2024

EppsDynasty said:
Sounds like you want to try this endeavor. Just remember a farm is something completely different than a tortoise. There are so many suffering tortoises on FARMS. For some reason Farmers think they're tortoise experts too. I do not mean to be mean just honest. 1st ... These torts are from Africa not USA. 2nd... Sulcata tortoises allowed to let their body temp get below 80 degrees is CRUEL PUNISHMENT. 3rd... I didn't notice any crops on your FARM, so you will be buying vegetables at a rate you've never imagined before. HAY or Alfalfa is not a great food. With Tortoises you don't just throw in a flake like you would for a cow, horse. Everyday you need to be the tort cook and prepare meals for them. 4th... You are about to become a weatherman, meaning you will have to keep track of the weather and do whatever needs to be done to ensure COMFORT for these two. @Tom is 1 of the most knowledgeable people there is on torts. Don't get hurt feelings and listen to learn.

I SINCERELY wish you the best for the comfort of these fantastic beings. I look forward to hearing how they are and learn from your experiences too. so WELCOME Phil B.

You need chill a bit on this new guy, you sound like an. He is coming here looking advice to get things right, not be chastised and have his lifestyle criticized by the likes of you.

Maggie3fan · Jan 18, 2024

wellington said:
Sorry, but hay, is a great food for them. Not the only food though that should be fed. Orchard hay is the best one to use.

I am not part of this discussion but I did want to say that right before winter I buy a bale of first cutting locally grown grass hay and throw the whole thing into the shed. Whatever Sulcata I have at the time has free feed of this hay...There are no stems like Timothy hay, this is soft sweet smelling hay for the tort to sleep in and eat...about halfway thru winter I buy a bale of horse pasture hay for the rest of winter, all spring and summer they eat other stuff I grow for them...hey EppsDynasty...do you keep Sulcata? How about some photos of how they are set up?

this is rose of sharon, grape leaves, clover and grass, especially grown for Sulcata

cmacusa3 · Jan 18, 2024

BajatheChickenMan said:
You need chill a bit on this new guy, you sound like an. He is coming here looking advice to get things right, not be chastised and have his lifestyle criticized by the likes of you.

very well stated!!

Phil B · Jan 18, 2024

I do have alfalfa hay on my farm, which is for my goats. I never said I was feeding it to the tortoises. I have Timothy and Bermuda grass for the tortoises. We also have organic vegetables and fruit for them. Right now their 6x8 box is at 80°, I turn the heat off when they are outside walking around (their 20x 40 pen) and I turn it on when the go back in. I will be working on separating them in the next few days. I really appreciate the information I've received and read on this forum. Thank you very much.

wellington · Jan 18, 2024

Phil B said:
I do have alfalfa hay on my farm, which is for my goats. I never said I was feeding it to the tortoises. I have Timothy and Bermuda grass for the tortoises. We also have organic vegetables and fruit for them. Right now their 6x8 box is at 80°, I turn the heat off when they are outside walking around (their 20x 40 pen) and I turn it on when the go back in. I will be working on separating them in the next few days. I really appreciate the information I've received and read on this forum. Thank you very much.

Never fruit. Timothy hay is very woody and not the best hay to feed. If you can feed the softer parts of it that would be better or get orchard hay.

Jacqui · Jan 19, 2024

Are you enjoying them?

Phil B · Jan 19, 2024

Yes I am, we own a desert tortoise as well but these 2 are massive. I enjoy seeing them walk around.

jaizei · Jan 19, 2024

fwiw, I think coming from a farm background is usually beneficial. Many of the mistakes people make with fencing/enclosures for large tortoises is caused by treating them like backyard pets instead of livestock.

Phil B · Jan 19, 2024

jaizei said:
fwiw, I think coming from a farm background is usually beneficial. Many of the mistakes people make with fencing/enclosures for large tortoises is caused by treating them like backyard pets instead of livestock.

Yes, I agree. I have chain link fencing all around, it's 10ft tall and 2ft deep. Their pen is covered with 3ft corrugated metal all around.

EppsDynasty · Jan 19, 2024

I will NEVER tell a new large tortoise owner to feed hay. Especially if they think they are a farm. Google Petting Zoo in CA. There are over a dozen in L.A. There is 1 in between Tom, Phil and I that houses a Sulcata with a Desert Tortoise and are fed Hay....of course with the 5 goats that are in the pen as well. Yes so a Sulcata, Desert tortoise and 5 goats at the bail...at the same time. I will not argue Alfalfa is bad nutritionally. It is the grass that feeds the world, or at least the animals that are farmed for the world to harvest. But when a new to torts but not to a FARM person hears "they eat hay 99% of the time equate that to the same feeding routine as FARM animals Horses, Donkeys, Alpaca etc. Until a tort owner understands a Tortoise diet I do not say HAY.

BajatheChickenMan said:
You need chill a bit on this new guy, you sound like an. He is coming here looking advice to get things right, not be chastised and have his lifestyle criticized by the likes of you.

How many Sulcata Torts have you had to take care of that have been treated like farm animals? How much of your own money and time have been spent on taking care of a large tortoise that has been cruelly treated? Have you had to dig maggots in feces out of a Sulcatas anus due to improper care?A new tort owner jumping into Sulcata ownership is a big deal. It can not be treated with kid gloves and fairy land thoughts. Just as you don't want me to get my feelings hurt, this needs to be how new owners are told the FACTS. My mission is RESCUING not BREEDING so the mistreatment of any animal is a big deal to me. Yes I may have been a little harsh with my tone (as my wife says), hopefully Phil B or someone reading this will get the point that a complete diet is more important than getting a farm animal to eat hay. In the original ? there is no mention of any other food than HAY. And was asked how often do I feed them HAY. So yes he said he was feeding the tortoises hay. Yes I jumped to the conclusion that this is what he was told by the old owner. I could be wrong but that is why the response from me was as it was.

As for the comment about feed stores.....In CA we have stopped to enforce sellers licences or permits to sell anything. You can sell whatever you want on your own property, public property and hell someone elses property. This has led to "Unsafe" things being sold. A perfect example was just witnessed yesterday......On my way home from town a neighbor a few miles away was preparing his land to plant ALFALFA. This man has a FARM (supposedly) but knows nothing of proper fertilizing practices. Miracle grow will be broadcast over the crop until the day it will be harvested. This FARM also has high levels of Arsenic and Uranium in their well water. So what ya think about that Alfalfa Hay he is going to sell? It will be laced with Miracle Gro, Arsenic, Uranium and any other thing this person sprays on the plants as they grow to kill bugs. You want to feed that to your tort? Didn't think so. Our feed stores get whatever they can to sell. and tell you what you want to hear to sell it to you. A local feed stpre 40 miles away sells orchard grass beginning in august.... really it is an Alfalfa field that has been overrun by native weeds so it's a 50/50 mix of Alfalfa and weeds...NOT Orchard Grass.
Another Example: There is a very large Alfalfa operation locally (over 4000 acres) that surrounds a group of houses (approximately 100 mobile homes). The homes have their own community well that serves the homes with water. This well is so contaminated with chemicals from the Alfalfa Farm their water is "Unusable" and "Unsafe." Every Month with their bill they recieve a notice explaining the dangers of even brushing your teeth with the water. EVERY resident uses bottled water and pays their bill without fail. This is to prevent the local water company from taking over this communities water. If you do not pay the municipal water bill and your water is turned off your home now has become "Uninhabitable" ...no water. This FARM still uses the water to water their crops then harvest and sell the Alfalfa contaminated with these Chemicals that have been dumped on the land for 75 years. Buyer Beware I guess. Again Nutritionally Alfalfa is Great but proper feeding needs to be explained to ensure a healthy life.

Jacqui · Jan 19, 2024

Phil B said:
Yes I am, we own a desert tortoise as well but these 2 are massive. I enjoy seeing them walk around.

I agree. I love to watch them, too.

BajatheChickenMan · Jan 19, 2024

EppsDynasty said:
I will NEVER tell a new large tortoise owner to feed hay. Especially if they think they are a farm. Google Petting Zoo in CA. There are over a dozen in L.A. There is 1 in between Tom, Phil and I that houses a Sulcata with a Desert Tortoise and are fed Hay....of course with the 5 goats that are in the pen as well. Yes so a Sulcata, Desert tortoise and 5 goats at the bail...at the same time. I will not argue Alfalfa is bad nutritionally. It is the grass that feeds the world, or at least the animals that are farmed for the world to harvest. But when a new to torts but not to a FARM person hears "they eat hay 99% of the time equate that to the same feeding routine as FARM animals Horses, Donkeys, Alpaca etc. Until a tort owner understands a Tortoise diet I do not say HAY.

How many Sulcata Torts have you had to take care of that have been treated like farm animals? How much of your own money and time have been spent on taking care of a large tortoise that has been cruelly treated? Have you had to dig maggots in feces out of a Sulcatas anus due to improper care?A new tort owner jumping into Sulcata ownership is a big deal. It can not be treated with kid gloves and fairy land thoughts. Just as you don't want me to get my feelings hurt, this needs to be how new owners are told the FACTS. My mission is RESCUING not BREEDING so the mistreatment of any animal is a big deal to me. Yes I may have been a little harsh with my tone (as my wife says), hopefully Phil B or someone reading this will get the point that a complete diet is more important than getting a farm animal to eat hay. In the original ? there is no mention of any other food than HAY. And was asked how often do I feed them HAY. So yes he said he was feeding the tortoises hay. Yes I jumped to the conclusion that this is what he was told by the old owner. I could be wrong but that is why the response from me was as it was.

As for the comment about feed stores.....In CA we have stopped to enforce sellers licences or permits to sell anything. You can sell whatever you want on your own property, public property and hell someone elses property. This has led to "Unsafe" things being sold. A perfect example was just witnessed yesterday......On my way home from town a neighbor a few miles away was preparing his land to plant ALFALFA. This man has a FARM (supposedly) but knows nothing of proper fertilizing practices. Miracle grow will be broadcast over the crop until the day it will be harvested. This FARM also has high levels of Arsenic and Uranium in their well water. So what ya think about that Alfalfa Hay he is going to sell? It will be laced with Miracle Gro, Arsenic, Uranium and any other thing this person sprays on the plants as they grow to kill bugs. You want to feed that to your tort? Didn't think so. Our feed stores get whatever they can to sell. and tell you what you want to hear to sell it to you. A local feed stpre 40 miles away sells orchard grass beginning in august.... really it is an Alfalfa field that has been overrun by native weeds so it's a 50/50 mix of Alfalfa and weeds...NOT Orchard Grass.
Another Example: There is a very large Alfalfa operation locally (over 4000 acres) that surrounds a group of houses (approximately 100 mobile homes). The homes have their own community well that serves the homes with water. This well is so contaminated with chemicals from the Alfalfa Farm their water is "Unusable" and "Unsafe." Every Month with their bill they recieve a notice explaining the dangers of even brushing your teeth with the water. EVERY resident uses bottled water and pays their bill without fail. This is to prevent the local water company from taking over this communities water. If you do not pay the municipal water bill and your water is turned off your home now has become "Uninhabitable" ...no water. This FARM still uses the water to water their crops then harvest and sell the Alfalfa contaminated with these Chemicals that have been dumped on the land for 75 years. Buyer Beware I guess. Again Nutritionally Alfalfa is Great but proper feeding needs to be explained to ensure a healthy life.

Okay we all get it, you're the divine authority on tortoise diet and farm life and no one could possibly know better than you, shame on us all!

Yvonne G · Jan 19, 2024

BajatheChickenMan said:
Okay we all get it, you're the divine authority on tortoise diet and farm life and no one could possibly know better than you, shame on us all!

I think you've been warned before. We don't allow tis sort of sarcasm towards other members. if you want to remain a member here cool it!

BajatheChickenMan · Jan 19, 2024

Yvonne G said:
I think you've been warned before. We don't allow tis sort of sarcasm towards other members. if you want to remain a member here cool it!

Wasn't sarcasm. Clearly they know better than everyone, they just said as much.

cmacusa3 · Jan 19, 2024

BajatheChickenMan said:
Okay we all get it, you're the divine authority on tortoise diet and farm life and no one could possibly know better than you, shame on us all!

BajatheChickenMan said:
Wasn't sarcasm. Clearly they know better than everyone, they just said as much.i get

I get your point, too many times I read things that members post to newbies and I feel like they need to slowdown and work on their delivery, I've sent several friends to this site and the first response I get from them is how sometimes they feel attacked right off the bat.

BajatheChickenMan · Jan 19, 2024

cmacusa3 said:
I get your point, too many times I read things that members post to newbies and I feel like they need to slowdown and work on their delivery, I've sent several friends to this site and the first response I get from them is how sometimes they feel attacked right off the bat.

Its the same on other hobby forums too. Some of the people decide they're the gatekeepers of information and scold others for just asking questions or jump to irrational conclusions and hurl baseless accusations off a single post. If that's how they are online it makes you wonder how they behave in real life. Fortunately there are others that possess the knowledge and have a more approachable attitude.

Tom · Jan 19, 2024

cmacusa3 said:
I get your point, too many times I read things that members post to newbies and I feel like they need to slowdown and work on their delivery, I've sent several friends to this site and the first response I get from them is how sometimes they feel attacked right off the bat.

I've been guilty of this in the past. May I request that you, and anyone else reading this, feel free to drop me a message telling me to ease up when you see this. My goal is to help tortoises. If the message is too harsh, it won't help the tortoise.

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