Nitpick me please

[Damien Szkatulski]

I have been using this forum starting a few days before I got my sulcata hatchling. And I have seen many extremely educated people and so much great advice. And I have done a lot of research on sulcata's, but I am aware they are a life long commitment and that the first year or two are times that dictate the rest of the tortoises life. So if anyone sees has any tips or nitpicks of my current setup I would appreciate it.
So, I got my sulcata not even a week ago. (I'm going to refer to it as a guy to refrain from the constant typing of he/she and her/him lol)
He is in a 10 gallon tank at the moment. I also own a 60 but I thought (for the first month or two) it would be good to observe him in a smaller environment.
When it comes to lighting and temperature he has a large UVB light covering half of his setup. It gets high 60s at lowest and high 70s to low 80s at day.
His substrate is coconut fiber, which I spray when the humidity gets low(50 without any treatment 70 when sprayed)
I was originally going to soak weekly but Im starting to reconsider(he liked it)
His food and water situation is as follows, but can easily be changed within a trip to the grocery store.
He has a small water bowl in the corner of his cage, with soaked moss bedding in it.
He is fed spinach, cabbage, kale, bell peppers, and multiple types of diced melons. But he refuses all but his greens(he loved a bit of broccoli we didn't use from thanksgiving ^_^.
He doesn't go outside at all right now, for multiple reasons.
1. We don't have an enclosure (I read Tom's tips lol) that I think he could use safely at his size. We have a large puppy playpen that would do well, if he couldn't fit through the bars ;_;
2. We have snowy, snowy winters. And I was under the impression it was a good time to buy him in the winter, because I though he would have time to get adjusted to his cage and have good seasons for going outside once he is a proper size. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is something in worried about.
3.Our neighborhood "shares" a great big yard. By that I mean our houses are lined up with a road in front so we have an attached strip of land without fences, and most of us have doggos.
So that's the outside situation.
And when it comes to interaction, I get him out three times a day and just walk around with him, pet him, and feed, etc.(I feel hesitant getting animals out because I don't know if he likes it, and I have more experience with show animals, my only other reptile being a panther chameleon who past last year.
And when it comes to the turtle himself, I don't know 100%, but I don't think he is having any problems.
He is generally resting in his hide with his arms out of his shell. For about half an hour here and there's he will run around and have staring contests with my chihuahua who is fascinated by him through the glass (trust me I will keep them separated lol). He enjoys displacing his substrate and decor. He never does the often mentioned behavior of walking into the glass(he seems to do a good job knowing it's there).
And he likes following my hand around the side of the cage.
He accasionally chews on his water moss, but almost equally as much just chews on the side of his water bowl 0_o(I assume because it's wet)
He doesn't eat small amounts often, but will ignore his food usually, and sometimes chows down the whole thing, tearing the leaves apart by grabbing them with his mouth and pulling it off with his leg(very, very cute. Should I give him small pieces, though?)
We got him from a local breeder who has exclusively had tortoises for his whole life (mainly sulcatas) and has raised and kept multiple to adult hood.
And the most important question I have, has anyone actually read this? Lol. If so please leave reccomendations in the thread.

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't allow baby enclosures to get below 80-85F day or night.

I keep the substrate swampy, and the humidity is very high (I don't measure, but it's been said on here that 80% or more is good).

I soak daily.

Enough with the "I"s

Smart tortoise. Sulcata should be eating grass and weeds, not bell pepper, fruit, etc.

Yes, I read it. Very well put and easy to understand.

The more you interact with your sulcata, the more people oriented he'll be as a big tortoise. I have a rescue in the back yard right now and every time he seem me or my dog he charges over to us trying to ram us. On the other hand, my sister had "Bob", a very large and tame sulcata, that she took to pet shop open house events, street vendor events, etc. and he was the hit of the event.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

I don't allow baby enclosures to get below 80-85F day or night.

I keep the substrate swampy, and the humidity is very high (I don't measure, but it's been said on here that 80% or more is good).

I soak daily.

Enough with the "I"s

Smart tortoise. Sulcata should be eating grass and weeds, not bell pepper, fruit, etc.

Yes, I read it. Very well put and easy to understand.

The more you interact with your sulcata, the more people oriented he'll be as a big tortoise. I have a rescue in the back yard right now and every time he seem me or my dog he charges over to us trying to ram us. On the other hand, my sister had "Bob", a very large and tame sulcata, that she took to pet shop open house events, street vendor events, etc. and he was the hit of the event.

So would a basking lamp, momentary spraying, and a change of diet fix these problems? Btw thank you for the input, I'm happy you helped me before I went farther with these flaws. That was exactly what I was looking for. I'm having this lil boy as my only tortoise and this is most likely the only time in my whole life I will have a baby tortoise, and I want him to be a happy boy ^_^

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

Also thanks for moving this thread to sulcata tortoises didn't know that species specific categories existed lol

 

[Yvonne G]

Instead of adding another lamp, you might try jury rigging a cover for the enclosure. That's how I keep mine warm. Here's a picture of my baby leopards, baby deserts and baby box:



Not exactly the prettiest accessory to my kitchen decor, but it works. The cover also keeps the humidity up.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

Instead of adding another lamp, you might try jury rigging a cover for the enclosure. That's how I keep mine warm. Here's a picture of my baby leopards, baby deserts and baby box:

View attachment 224216 View attachment 224217 View attachment 224218 View attachment 224219 View attachment 224220

Not exactly the prettiest accessory to my kitchen decor, but it works. The cover also keeps the humidity up.

That makes sense! Never though of covering it, but should I keep my light on at night (which I don't do right now)or are night bulbs necessary?

 

[Maro2Bear]

Welcome to the Forum and it sounds like you want to provide the very best! Great!

I think i would move up to the larger enclosure, it's just easier to maintain nice temperatures, humidity, etc. 10 gallon just seems too small to have your lights and che set up.

Check your temps against those recommended by @Tom in the Sulcata Care Sheets. Yours seem too low overnight and not hot enough during day. You want minimum of 80 degrees or a bit higher over night, upwards of 100ish or so during the day. You want a dsrk, warm humid hide on one end, sunken water dish, basking area. Again, i don't think a 10 gallon provides enough floor space to adequately provide area for sully to walk about, hide, bask, etc.

Id recommend daily soaking for the first two or three years....once/week isn't enough. Is the moss in his water dish, or his hide?

Do you have a lid on ur enclosure? Upload some pix so we can see your new sully and set up.

Also, re-check the recommended foods..peppers, melons, not the best for a baby. Have you tried Mazuri yet? Mazuri tortoise chow helps ensure overall nutrition.

Best of luck.

 

[Yvonne G]

That makes sense! Never though of covering it, but should I keep my light on at night (which I don't do right now)or are night bulbs necessary?

If you'll notice I have three fixtures in that large tub. The one in the middle is the UVB and the two on either end are 60 watt black light bulbs. When my house is real cold, like today, I leave the black lights on day and night. Otherwise, they're only on at night.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

Welcome to the Forum and it sounds like you want to provide the very best! Great!

I think i would move up to the larger enclosure, it's just easier to maintain nice temperatures, humidity, etc. 10 gallon just seems too small to have your lights and che set up.

Check your temps against those recommended by @Tom in the Sulcata Care Sheets. Yours seem too low overnight and not hot enough during day. You want minimum of 80 degrees or a bit higher over night, upwards of 100ish or so during the day. You want a dsrk, warm humid hide on one end, sunken water dish, basking area. Again, i don't think a 10 gallon provides enough floor space to adequately provide area for sully to walk about, hide, bask, etc.

Id recommend daily soaking for the first two or three years....once/week isn't enough. Is the moss in his water dish, or his hide?

Do you have a lid on ur enclosure? Upload some pix so we can see your new sully and set up.

Also, re-check the recommended foods..peppers, melons, not the best for a baby. Have you tried Mazuri yet? Mazuri tortoise chow helps ensure overall nutrition.

Best of luck.

I have a much larger tank available(around the size of the larger tables you'd see, but still a glass container)
He doesn't primarily eat the fruit I mentioned, but just about every leafy green I could find other than lettuce. I have a lid. Ima go take some pics right now. Once again I'm planning on moving him to a larger tank within a week. I'm looking for a place that sells natural substrate for farms(I've heard it is much cheaper, less treated, and similar quality. Is this true?) the main concern with the bigger cage is I often clean the cage and replace substrate and my local petstore sells a fourth of what that cage needs to be bedded for 20$.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

If you'll notice I have three fixtures in that large tub. The one in the middle is the UVB and the two on either end are 60 watt black light bulbs. When my house is real cold, like today, I leave the black lights on day and night. Otherwise, they're only on at night.

Gotcha. Ill get a black light

 

[Eduardo Hernandez]

Welcome! Sounds like you’ve gotten some good advice so far. I just wanted to clarify, did you mean that you take him on walks inside on the floor of your house? We don’t really recommend that, the floor is a dangerous place for tortoises especially as small as a baby, and we see many of them eating things they shouldn’t as well as getting stepped on, lost, etc. not to mention it’s too cold on the floor.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

I have a much larger tank available(around the size of the larger tables you'd see, but still a glass container)
He doesn't primarily eat the fruit I mentioned, but just about every leafy green I could find other than lettuce. I have a lid. Ima go take some pics right now. Once again I'm planning on moving him to a larger tank within a week. I'm looking for a place that sells natural substrate for farms(I've heard it is much cheaper, less treated, and similar quality. Is this true?) the main concern with the bigger cage is I often clean the cage and replace substrate and my local petstore sells a fourth of what that cage needs to be bedded for 20$.

Scratch that, I'll move him to the new tank in substitute of cleaning his tank, when it's time to be cleaned.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

The first pick is his moss/ water bowl

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

Welcome! Sounds like you’ve gotten some good advice so far. I just wanted to clarify, did you mean that you take him on walks inside on the floor of your house? We don’t really recommend that, the floor is a dangerous place for tortoises especially as small as a baby, and we see many of them eating things they shouldn’t as well as getting stepped on, lost, etc. not to mention it’s too cold on the floor.

Lol I meant walking outside with him (while holding him). Don't know if I can do this any longer considering the days I did it I was lucky they were warm. I don't feel comfortable letting him walk on the ground outside considering he's not even old enough to have a hard shell. He's 4 months [edit:1 month] and his belly is still a lil soft. PS, is this normal? His back is rock hard but the center of his belly is a bit soft. He eats calcium rich greens and has uvb

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

And I admit to not knowing his age. Though I do know his breeder is reputable considering he has raised his own healthy adults

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

And I admit to not knowing his age. Though I do know his breeder is reputable considering he has raised his own healthy adults

4 months was based on size, I'll show a pic for your input edit:No! lol I just messaged the breeder. He's barely over a month!! Lol

 

[Maro2Bear]

Gotcha. Ill get a black light

Hmmm, i think ceramic heating element (CHE) on a thermostat is really more what you should be aiming at vice the black light. You hang the CHE in the middle of your enclosure, hooked into a thermostat set to lets say 80-85 And you are good to go almost forever...until of course it's time for the next larger enclosure.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

I'm

Hmmm, i think ceramic heating element (CHE) on a thermostat is really more what you should be aiming at vice the black light. You hang the CHE in the middle of your enclosure, hooked into a thermostat set to lets say 80-85 And you are good to go almost forever...until of course it's time for the next larger enclosure.

thats good. Everything he has right now is subject to change. By the end of the week he should be in his larger enclosure with a ceramic set up, if I can find one of my timers I could set up my mister(used to have a panther chameleon) so he can be misted while I'm not at home, at least for while he's a baby. I'll probably buy some more thermometers for the different parts of the cage etc.

 

[Damien Szkatulski]

Hmmm, i think ceramic heating element (CHE) on a thermostat is really more what you should be aiming at vice the black light. You hang the CHE in the middle of your enclosure, hooked into a thermostat set to lets say 80-85 And you are good to go almost forever...until of course it's time for the next larger enclosure.

And if that would make me set for "almost forever..." when I have all of that set up I'll start thinking about an outdoor setup for summer

 

[Tom]

I am the king of nit-picking! But always with good intentions. I'm just not used to being invited to nit pick…

I'll go through your post bit by bit, but in the end, all of this is in the three threads I will link at the bottom. You are making some common errors, and Im thrilled that you are open to fixing them.

• 10 gallon is much too small. Can't make a proper thermal gradient in that. Move to the 60 ASAP. And the 60 is only going to last a month or two. This will give you time to build a large closed chamber that will last a couple of years, make your life much easier, and make the tortoises life much better.
• Coco coir is oaky, but I find it much too messy for sulcatas. Fine grade orchid bark works much better, and both of these can be found much cheaper in bulk at garden centers.
• This is a tropical species. Temps in the 60s or low 70s are too low, especially for a new baby. Keep temps in the coldest part of the enclosure 80 or higher at all times. Only temperate species need a night drop that low. During the day ambient should creep up to 90-ish and there should be a baking area that is near 100.
• This species hatches at the start of the monsoon season in the wild. They need warm humid conditions. Shoot for 80% ambient humidity and offer a humid hide with 100% humidity.
• All of mine try to eat any kind of moss I put in the enclosure. I wouldn't use it. Best to take it out before it causes a problem.
• Every food you mentioned is the wrong food. None of those are toxic, but that isn't what they should be eating. Here is the right stuff:
• https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
• Since you live in the frozen north, the items on my list won't be available in winter. This being the case, when you buy foods at the grocery store, favor endive and escarole as your staple items, but add in sprouted wheat grass (Found in large pet store chains and some grocery store and sold in little plots for a couple of bucks.), cilantro, collard, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, chard, celery tops, carrot tops, radiccio, spring mix and many others. Add in some blended grass hay, ZooMed Grassland tortoise chow, or regular Mazuri tortoise chow to amend the grocery store greens, add fiber and balance out the nutrition. This last sentence about amending the grocery store food is important. Many people focus on the greens and give less importance to the amendments. Both are important.
• About your outside points: 1. Puppy pens are not good unless you put a visual barrier around the bottom. I will link some ideas for you below. 2. It doesn't matter when you buy them. This species is very adaptable and they are not bother all that much by moving and new enclosures. 3. You will need a secure fence around your tortoises eventual outside enclosure when the snow melts. Domestic dogs are probably the single biggest killer of small tortoises.
• I prefer to leave mine alone in their enclosure and just pull them out for soaks daily, but with sulcatas, it is usually okay to handle them more. If appetite and activity remain good and unchanged, then handle your new pet as much as you like.
• As you are seeing first hand, that non-sense you always read about glass enclosures is… well… non-sense. I, and many others have been using them for decades with 100's of babies and never and issue. They are actually good for all the reasons they falsely claim they are bad. Reduced ventilation? Good! My warm humid air will stay where I want it, INSIDE the enclosure!
• I think is intermittent appetite is due to the cold temps. This should improve with warmer temps.
• I feed hatchlings whole leaves. I find they have an easier time tearing off bite size chunks when they have the weigh and drag of the whole leaf to pull against. Other people chop it up. Either way works due to that sulcata adaptability.
• Yes! I read the whole thing!

Here is that care info:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Enclosure ideas for sunning the baby:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cheap-easy-simple-sunning-enclosure.14680/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/simple-sunning-enclosure.104351/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/

Hit me with all your questions after reading this.