Worried about my Sulcata

[Maggie3fan]

If the room temp is 80-85, and he has a basking lamp that is 111 degrees (that is a little too hoy by the way...), then the temperatures should be fine. Do you mean to say that humidity will be too low in an open topped tub? That might be the case, even in a humid climate.

I disagree...I said what I meant, don't put words coming from me when you don't evidently understand

 

[Tom]

I disagree...I said what I meant, don't put words coming from me when you don't evidently understand

Then please explain yourself. If the room temp is 80-85 with a basking temp over 100, why did you say in post number 13 and 15 that his ambient temp isn't enough when its 80-85 and he needs a basking lamp?

 

[Tom]

The tempature im describing is inside his enclosure, which matches the ambient tempature very closely within a few degrees.

The pellets were recommended by the vet, thats why i changed over to pellets only, prior to that i did a mix of pellets + greens or greens only, his appetitte declined before the pellets were introduced - but its harder for me to see if he has eaten the pellets than the greens, as he tends to walk ontop of the pellets smushing them, making it impossible to tell how much is eaten or not.

I got the coiled bulbs, UVB 10.0 - also please remember im not in the US - i don't have access to as many of the brands as you guys have - a lot of it sure, but not all of it


Humidity is in the 60-70% range - from my probe - when i used to have him in the closed lid box it was closer to 90-95%, either way i don't think humidy should be an issue.



He got 3 sources of UV - he got the UVB lamp above the food area - he got UV/UVB/Heating in the basking area - and then whenever he is soaking i do it in a tub that i place in the sun on my balcony - though he usually goes to the shaded part of the tub. He walks freely on the balcony once or twice a week for an hour or so.

I assume that when i got him at 38g he was only around 4 weeks old, though i have no way to confirm this - for sure the breeding and care conditions in Thailand when bought at a market is not the best, but my friend bought a Sulcata from the same vendor at the market and his is about 3 years now and id reckon 30lbs - ironicly i know that he raised his "worse" than i did, basicly entire start of its life it was showed in a wooden box, sure as hell didnt buy all the stuff that i have done, which is also why its fustrates me that im having these issues.
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I am considering moving the enclosure outside on the balcony and drop the UVB lights all together - its a bit windy on the balcony at times, but would give him access to plenty of natural sunlight for many hours of the day, and tempatures at night are never lower than 70f (usually 75-80), and day time its 85-95f. Humidity outside is in the 60-75% range year round.

What are your guys thoughts on that?

As for the diet together with the pellets (which i give him 3 diffrent kinds so he can pick which ever he likes), i also give him the grass, but he doesnt seem to want to eat it - i can go back to buying whatever green salads are available at the market and offer them to him - i live in a city so i don't have easy access to dandilions etc.

Both of the bulbs you are using are potentially harmful and bad, and that could be a contributing factor here. MVBs and CFLs should not be used.

Humidity for a little baby should always be over 80%, so 60-70% is too low and might cause some dehydration, especially when its 111 under the basking area.

Pellets only is a mistake. Vets don't know tortoise care. They know medical stuff like how to do surgery, and how to correctly dose medications. I would get your tortoise back on good greens and use the pellets as a supplemental food a couple of times a week.

Read the thread I linked in post number 19 for an explanation of why your friend's tortoise is fine and yours is not. His baby made it through the hatchling phase with minimal kidney damage, and yours, apparently, did not. It doesn't matter how well you care for the baby. What matters in this case is what the breeder and seller did long before you put hands on this baby. Your excellent care can't undo that type of damage.

Read this thread for an explanation of why there is so much wrong and conflicting info out in the world, and for the correct care and lighting:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome!

 

[Khorngor]

Both of the bulbs you are using are potentially harmful and bad, and that could be a contributing factor here. MVBs and CFLs should not be used.

Humidity for a little baby should always be over 80%, so 60-70% is too low and might cause some dehydration, especially when its 111 under the basking area.

Pellets only is a mistake. Vets don't know tortoise care. They know medical stuff like how to do surgery, and how to correctly dose medications. I would get your tortoise back on good greens and use the pellets as a supplemental food a couple of times a week.

Read the thread I linked in post number 19 for an explanation of why your friend's tortoise is fine and yours is not. His baby made it through the hatchling phase with minimal kidney damage, and yours, apparently, did not. It doesn't matter how well you care for the baby. What matters in this case is what the breeder and seller did long before you put hands on this baby. Your excellent care can't undo that type of damage.

Read this thread for an explanation of why there is so much wrong and conflicting info out in the world, and for the correct care and lighting:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions are welcome!

But if my baby got kidney damage, is that for life or will he be able to grow out of it?

What do you think about keeping him outside and he gets his UV/UVB exposure from the sun ?

I can moisten his enclosure daily without much issues, and during rain season it's well above 80% humidity outside anyway.

 

[Tom]

But if my baby got kidney damage, is that for life or will he be able to grow out of it?

What do you think about keeping him outside and he gets his UV/UVB exposure from the sun ?

I can moisten his enclosure daily without much issues, and during rain season it's well above 80% humidity outside anyway.

There is know way to asses kidney damage in a living baby. If there was damage because of the typical chronic dehydration that most breeders subject babies too, it goes one of two ways. 1. They stall right around 50 grams for weeks or months and then finally die, or, 2. They grow very slowly for months or years, and then somehow overcome the damage and begin growing normally. There is no way to know which way it will go, and all you can do is offer the best conditions possible and hope for the best. No vet can fix this and there is no medicine for it. They either have enough functioning nephrons left in the kidneys, or they don't.

Outside all day is bad for babies. Climate doesn't matter. This is true in South Florida and even in their native country. Outside for a couple of hours two or three times a week is great. Soak the baby for 30-40 minute in warm water after each sunning session. As the tortoise gets larger, you can leave it outside more and more. By about 15-18cm you can leave them outside most of the day in favorable weather. By 25cm, they can live outside full time with a heated and insulated shelter. In your climate, the heat will likely remain off most of the time, but I would still have it installed and set on a thermostat for those occasional nights when the outside temp dips below 26C.

The baby needs an indoor closed chamber with humidity over 80% all the time.

 

[Khorngor]

There is know way to asses kidney damage in a living baby. If there was damage because of the typical chronic dehydration that most breeders subject babies too, it goes one of two ways. 1. They stall right around 50 grams for weeks or months and then finally die, or, 2. They grow very slowly for months or years, and then somehow overcome the damage and begin growing normally. There is no way to know which way it will go, and all you can do is offer the best conditions possible and hope for the best. No vet can fix this and there is no medicine for it. They either have enough functioning nephrons left in the kidneys, or they don't.

Outside all day is bad for babies. Climate doesn't matter. This is true in South Florida and even in their native country. Outside for a couple of hours two or three times a week is great. Soak the baby for 30-40 minute in warm water after each sunning session. As the tortoise gets larger, you can leave it outside more and more. By about 15-18cm you can leave them outside most of the day in favorable weather. By 25cm, they can live outside full time with a heated and insulated shelter. In your climate, the heat will likely remain off most of the time, but I would still have it installed and set on a thermostat for those occasional nights when the outside temp dips below 26C.

The baby needs an indoor closed chamber with humidity over 80% all the time.

Okay i will revert him back to his much smaller, original enclosed box - just sucks when he got this much larger one that i spend a bunch of money and effort on, that in theory should be better.

Will update later and see if i see an improvement in his condition, but i reckon it will take a few months before i will notice anything.

 

[Tom]

Okay i will revert him back to his much smaller, original enclosed box - just sucks when he got this much larger one that i spend a bunch of money and effort on, that in theory should be better.

Will update later and see if i see an improvement in his condition, but i reckon it will take a few months before i will notice anything.

He needs a large closed chamber, not a small one. Maybe you can retro fit the new larger enclosure to close it all in? Humidity is important, but so is space.

 

[wellington]

The temperature in my condo is 85f+ during the day and maybe 80f at night, and he is inside the condo in an enclosure.

As i wrote the lamp over the food is not heated, its just a UVB bulb, he got a seperate basking area with a heat/uvb combo bulb in another corner.

Veggies i mean green salads, i don't have as good access to a diverse diet as i would in my home country, but deep green salads from local market is what we used to feed him until the vet said to do pellets. Right now its been pellets + some random grass that I've been growing on the balcony.

I must admit i have a hard time understanding he should be too cold, with the tempatures in this country, and with my friends sulcata being outside 24/7/365.

But i will put him back in the smaller enclosure and see if his condition improves.

With him under your table, the heat of the condo won't keep his enclosure at the same temp your condo thermostat says.
Heat rises and the floor is always colder. So you have to be sure the temps inside the enclosure are what they should be.
80-85F all over day and night.
Basking 95-100F yours at 111 is too high, get it down.
Night temp say as day over all temp.
Humidity 80%
If you don't have the room now for a tent over the enclosure, what are you going to do in 6 months, a year, or two when he needs a bigger enclosure than he is in now? He will out grow the box and cement tub very quickly.
He should be housed in the enclosed chamber until around 12 inches long or so.

 

[wellington]

Maybe wrap plastic around the table legs, from floor to the table sides, using the legs of table to hold up and out the plastic and the underneath of table being the ceiling to the enclosure?

 

[wellington]

Then please explain yourself. If the room temp is 80-85 with a basking temp over 100, why did you say in post number 13 and 15 that his ambient temp isn't enough when its 80-85 and he needs a basking lamp?

I'm guessing here, but likely because the enclosure is under the OP table.
My thought was the same as I think Maggie's and Yvonnes is. Temp of condo doesn't mean the temp of the enclosure is the same being on the floor under a table where heat is being blocked not completely but somewhat.

 

[Khorngor]

With him under your table, the heat of the condo won't keep his enclosure at the same temp your condo thermostat says.
Heat rises and the floor is always colder. So you have to be sure the temps inside the enclosure are what they should be.
80-85F all over day and night.
Basking 95-100F yours at 111 is too high, get it down.
Night temp say as day over all temp.
Humidity 80%
If you don't have the room now for a tent over the enclosure, what are you going to do in 6 months, a year, or two when he needs a bigger enclosure than he is in now? He will out grow the box and cement tub very quickly.
He should be housed in the enclosed chamber until around 12 inches long or so.

The temps im mentioning are measured inside his enclosure - the 111f im not sure how i can lower, i can't raise the lamp any higher than it is - this is only an 80w bulb.

As for where i will keep him when he grows bigger - ofcourse im not living in this condo forever or i wouldnt have gotten a Sulcata, plan is to buy a house within the next 12-18 months, i only need to figure out a solution until then.

The "much smaller enclosure" is not that tiny - its a 150L box thats like 90x70cm or something, so its not super tiny - and its easier for me to control the tempature and humidity in that one.

 

[wellington]

The temps im mentioning are measured inside his enclosure - the 111f im not sure how i can lower, i can't raise the lamp any higher than it is - this is only an 80w bulb.

As for where i will keep him when he grows bigger - ofcourse im not living in this condo forever or i wouldnt have gotten a Sulcata, plan is to buy a house within the next 12-18 months, i only need to figure out a solution until then.

The "much smaller enclosure" is not that tiny - its a 150L box thats like 90x70cm or something, so its not super tiny - and its easier for me to control the tempature and humidity in that one.

Okay good about temps. Can you get a smaller watt bulb if you can't raise it any more?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

The temps im mentioning are measured inside his enclosure - the 111f im not sure how i can lower, i can't raise the lamp any higher than it is - this is only an 80w bulb.

As for where i will keep him when he grows bigger - ofcourse im not living in this condo forever or i wouldnt have gotten a Sulcata, plan is to buy a house within the next 12-18 months, i only need to figure out a solution until then.

The "much smaller enclosure" is not that tiny - its a 150L box thats like 90x70cm or something, so its not super tiny - and its easier for me to control the tempature and humidity in that one.

If you can't get a lower wattage bulb you can look at lamp dimmers (rheostats). I guess DIY/hardware stores should have them. With a dimmer you can adjust lamps output precisely.