What's Over Feeding?

[kit-e-kat]

Hello!
I would like to get a opinions on what is over feeding. I was feeding my Greeks the other day, and it occured to me, "Am I'm overfeeding?" They seem to really go for fresh food, (who wouldn't?), and shun the wilty food that is a few hours old. What do you think?
Regards,
John and Joanie

 

[Meg90]

My Greeks eat daily. As much as they want for the younger kids, and if I find anybody waiting on a food tile, I give them more.

IMO you are underfeeding.

 

[terracolson]

i am kind of wondering the Same about my Leopard hatchlings... Since they have grass in there enclosure...

 

[GBtortoises]

It's extremely difficult to over feed a young, growing tortoise, as long as they are active enough on a daily basis. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should be fed all day long either because it is not how they are "designed" to operate.
However, too much of a rich diet, too much vitamins, along with being kept too warm on a regular day/night basis, which is often can cause accelerated developmental growth. It's very common in captivity. The results are everlasting and in the end the tortoise will not look like it should have.

 

[Tom]

However, too much of a rich diet, too much vitamins, along with being kept too warm on a regular day/night basis, which is often can cause accelerated developmental growth. It's very common in captivity. The results are everlasting and in the end the tortoise will not look like it should have.

This is a long held belief by many experienced tortoise keepers, myself included. Events and observations over the last couple of years have started to make me question how true this is. In some conditions, what you say is absolutely true. Lately I've seen several cases, where things were done all "wrong", according to our long held beliefs, yet the tortoise seems to be the picture of health and smooth as a wild caught.

All I'm saying is that we ought to keep an open mind and be receptive to new info. I'm sure Mr. Fife received a lot of unpleasant comments when he first suggested that a desert species of tortoise ought to be kept in a more humid environment. But time is telling us that he was correct.

I have underfed an ideal diet to several species only to have everlasting results where the tortoise does not look like it should have. By contrast, I've seen, with my own eyes, quite a few cases where various tortoise species were "overfed" the "wrong diet" yet they looked phenomenal.

 

[stells]

Overfeeding... yes what is that... no such thing if you ask me....

 

[Yvonne G]

A tortoise will eat as much as it feels it needs to eat. The problem arises when that tortoise isn't allowed any exercise. In the wild they do an awful lot of walking, searching for food. In captivity, they eat, then if they're in a small habitat, they go hide. No exercise.

(Just my opinion)

 

[t_mclellan]

I agree with Yvone, Especially with young tort's.
One should give as much space as possible (with all tort's) without making things so large that they have a hard time finding the food & water.

 

[Tom]

I agree with Yvone, Especially with young tort's.
One should give as much space as possible (with all tort's) without making things so large that they have a hard time finding the food & water.

I've had 2" babies in 20x40' outdoor yards. They never had any trouble finding the food.

 

[t_mclellan]

[/quote]

I've had 2" babies in 20x40' outdoor yards. They never had any trouble finding the food.
[/quote]

Hi Roachman26;
I suppose my comment was a bit vague at the very least.

I was not trying to say they can't find food & water in a large enclosure.
I have had Redfoots hatch in my pens without my knowing & found them at 3 & 4 inches, So I also know that under the right circumstances they will be fine.
I'm also fairly certain that most peoples outdoor pens / enclosures are not conducive to raising a "Free range" hatchling.
I doubt that the "volunteers" that I have found in my pens ate much food from the food pan, or drank water from the bowl.
They were happy & healthy none the less.

The pen should be large enough for the animal to get enough exercise.
Without their HUMAN losing track of them.
Maybe that's what I meant.
'O' by the way most people would think I ober feed.

 

[GBtortoises]

"This is a long held belief by many experienced tortoise keepers, myself included. Events and observations over the last couple of years have started to make me question how true this is. In some conditions, what you say is absolutely true. Lately I've seen several cases, where things were done all "wrong", according to our long held beliefs, yet the tortoise seems to be the picture of health and smooth as a wild caught."

I have living proof of both scenarios here in my tortoise groups and unfortunately I have seen plenty of proof of accelerated growth in photos of captive born tortoises that people have posted on this site and others. There are tortoises posted here and elsewhere that are well under 2 years old and they're almost 4" long. That's not normal growth rate. I guess I just don't grasp why so many people are hellbent on seeing how fast they can grow their tortoises!

No tortoises that are raised from birth in captivity are perfectly smooth. But they obviously don't have the hardships to endure that their wild counterparts do such as erosion due to wind, sand, walking through pathways in low brush and hides, severe weather, changing food availability, etc... But many in captivity are much smoother than others. It's not just the smoothness of the shells that I'm referring to when I mention accelerated growth. It's the development of the edge of the shells & nails and other indicators along with the fact that the tortoise is twice as large or larger than it should be at a given age. These atributes will be magnified once the tortoises become adults.

It's very easy to pick a tortoise with accelerated growth out of a crowd, or even alone. If the tortoise is healthy and that's what someone likes, that's fine I guess. But I got interested in tortoises because of the photos I saw of them in their wild growth condition. That is still how I would like mine to look, or as close as possible in captivity.

I agree about being receptive to new information. If I (we) weren't we'd still be feeding our tortoises iceburg lettuce, bread soaked in milk and keeping them on corncob.

I'm also not suggesting underfeeding tortoises. Some people believe in "keeping their tortoises hungry". I do not. Mine get fed as much as they can eat when they're fed. But they also have plenty of space and opportunity for activity which I believe is the key to them not getting obese and in part developing accelerated growth.

Accelerated growth comes from a combination of feeding them a diet that is much richer than they are "designed" for, too much vitamins and keeping them too hot consistently.

 

[Annieski]

I was given a guide on how much to feed each day and it has helped me. It's just a guide---- find a plate that resembles the size the tortoise is now. Fill the plate with the desired food in circumferrence and height and then take that amount of food and divide it into several places in the enclosure. When it's gone--it's gone for today and tomorrow is another day.

 

[Tom]

Thanks to Terry and GB for the thoughtful replies. Good info. Sage advice.

Yvonne's post about the exercise made me think a lot. This has just never been an issue for me as I always use larger than normal enclosures for tortoises. I also keep them a little warmer than most, which contributes to even more activity. Maybe that is the reason, I've never had an obese tortoise in my care. I've seen pics of obese tortoises and wondered how they got that way.

 

[dreadyA]

I'm also not suggesting underfeeding tortoises. Some people believe in "keeping their tortoises hungry". I do not.

I know, right?? I, myself, can barely go like 3 or 4 hours without eating!
Stuff them still they have the need to go walk it off!!