The beginnings of an outdoor enclosure for a Leopard

[Renee_H]

Please note that fence will NOT be part of this enclosure (I purchased from the dollar tree to map out and begin the layout I’m planning). Additionally the dog igloo will also not be used I just stuck it there as a place marker for the heated night box I found plans for on this forum and have yet to build). I have an appointment on the 15th for a fence company to come out and build a custom fence and locking top. I want to mature this space over a full 365 to monitor temps well establish plants, grasses, weeds. Take my time building the heated box, add a shallow pond etc. the plan is for the house to be south facing against that back wall. The dimensions are currently 10’ x 20’ I could technically go larger if I need to. Before the fence and gate are installed (doing 5” under ground dig barrier”) is there anything about this size/layout that I should consider? I ordered foraging seed mix already and have some plants around my yard to take starters from to add to the enclosure. fwiw I do not yet have a tort. As I mentioned above I will be spending the next year getting well established and then will look for an adult Leopard. TIA!

 

[Tom]

Please note that fence will NOT be part of this enclosure (I purchased from the dollar tree to map out and begin the layout I’m planning). Additionally the dog igloo will also not be used I just stuck it there as a place marker for the heated night box I found plans for on this forum and have yet to build). I have an appointment on the 15th for a fence company to come out and build a custom fence and locking top. I want to mature this space over a full 365 to monitor temps well establish plants, grasses, weeds. Take my time building the heated box, add a shallow pond etc. the plan is for the house to be south facing against that back wall. The dimensions are currently 10’ x 20’ I could technically go larger if I need to. Before the fence and gate are installed (doing 5” under ground dig barrier”) is there anything about this size/layout that I should consider? I ordered foraging seed mix already and have some plants around my yard to take starters from to add to the enclosure. fwiw I do not yet have a tort. As I mentioned above I will be spending the next year getting well established and then will look for an adult Leopard. TIA!

Hello and welcome.

You don't need a dig barrier for a leopard. They don't dig.

What sort of fence is the fencing company going to put up? You want something that is a visual barrier. Chain link won't work and the tort will likely injure itself on that sort of thing. Leopards aren't climbers and a 16 inch tall wall will hold them in nicely. I like to use slumpstone block stacked three high with the middle row off set with a half block for strength. This is nice because its easily moved, adjusted, or expanded, and it looks much nicer tan cinder blocks.

If you have dogs, a 4 foot tall cain link fence will keep most dogs out, but you'll need a visual barrier around the bottom for the tortoise. In this case a 12 inch tall strip of plywood will do it. You can get four 12 inch x 8 foot strips from one $20 sheet of plywood, and you can paint it a pleasant color if you like.

You can also use corrugated roofing plastic stuck vertically into the ground with a pressure treated frame around it. I'll show pics.

What do you mean a "locking top" on your fencing? Do you mean the night box? Or do you mean you are making this whole area into a giant cage? But if the latter were the case, you'd need a gate, not a locking top. Please clarify for me. What is the plan?

Also, this area looks great, but 10x20 really isn't large enough for an adult leopard. I'd recommend at least 30x30, or the equivalent. Some females will grow to 18 inches, and this area is really too small for that. SA leopards can get to 24 inches in some cases. If you are confined to just this area, would you consider other tortoise species? Any of the Testudo would fit nicely into an area this size and do well in your climate too.

You will need to ID the plant on the back wall and verify that it isn't something toxic. Though you might read otherwise, tortoises will absolutely eat toxic plants and kill themselves. Some people assert otherwise, but I've seen enough dead ones at my tortoise vet friends clinics to convince me otherwise. I think what happens is the sometimes, some tortoises will choose to not eat a toxic plant if given the opportunity. The short-sighted owner of that tortoise then erroneously concludes that no tortoise will ever eat a toxic plant under any circumstance, and loudly says so on the internet. Beware of what you find on the internet for tortoise care. Most of it is wrong.

Here are some pictures showing what I mentioned above:











I hope these ideas help!

Here is some general tortoise info for you too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Renee_H]

Hello and welcome.

You don't need a dig barrier for a leopard. They don't dig.

What sort of fence is the fencing company going to put up? You want something that is a visual barrier. Chain link won't work and the tort will likely injure itself on that sort of thing. Leopards aren't climbers and a 16 inch tall wall will hold them in nicely. I like to use slumpstone block stacked three high with the middle row off set with a half block for strength. This is nice because its easily moved, adjusted, or expanded, and it looks much nicer tan cinder blocks.

If you have dogs, a 4 foot tall cain link fence will keep most dogs out, but you'll need a visual barrier around the bottom for the tortoise. In this case a 12 inch tall strip of plywood will do it. You can get four 12 inch x 8 foot strips from one $20 sheet of plywood, and you can paint it a pleasant color if you like.

You can also use corrugated roofing plastic stuck vertically into the ground with a pressure treated frame around it. I'll show pics.

What do you mean a "locking top" on your fencing? Do you mean the night box? Or do you mean you are making this whole area into a giant cage? But if the latter were the case, you'd need a gate, not a locking top. Please clarify for me. What is the plan?

Also, this area looks great, but 10x20 really isn't large enough for an adult leopard. I'd recommend at least 30x30, or the equivalent. Some females will grow to 18 inches, and this area is really too small for that. SA leopards can get to 24 inches in some cases. If you are confined to just this area, would you consider other tortoise species? Any of the Testudo would fit nicely into an area this size and do well in your climate too.

You will need to ID the plant on the back wall and verify that it isn't something toxic. Though you might read otherwise, tortoises will absolutely eat toxic plants and kill themselves. Some people assert otherwise, but I've seen enough dead ones at my tortoise vet friends clinics to convince me otherwise. I think what happens is the sometimes, some tortoises will choose to not eat a toxic plant if given the opportunity. The short-sighted owner of that tortoise then erroneously concludes that no tortoise will ever eat a toxic plant under any circumstance, and loudly says so on the internet. Beware of what you find on the internet for tortoise care. Most of it is wrong.

Here are some pictures showing what I mentioned above:
View attachment 367600
View attachment 367602

View attachment 367603
View attachment 367604
View attachment 367605
View attachment 367606
View attachment 367607
View attachment 367608
View attachment 367609

I hope these ideas help!

Here is some general tortoise info for you too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you!

 

[wellington]

This is the fencing I use. I have two male leopards in separate enclosure. I have had no problem with the fencing not having a site barrier, however, I will say, I let the weeds grow thick along the fence line. The weeds do make a semi barrier but not solid.
My enclosures are about 6 or 7 feet wide by more than 50 feet long. A fruitless mulberry tree gives shade in both plus they have their summer hides.

 

[Renee_H]

Wow these pictures are all great! So more details, we have a very large backyard in the San Gabriel Valley, we also have a pool and 3 dogs. I’ve put off getting a tortoise because obviously safety is paramount. Dogs- massive Great Dane Senior and scared of her own shadow (but you never know right?) she’s not a chewer (thank goodness) but occasionally has dug a few holes usually a sign to us we haven’t been as consistent as we need to be with daily walks. We also have a teacup maltipoo and a shih tzu both under 10#. Dane has never been aggressive with our small dogs but again I just want to be cautious. We also see raccoons, opossums, coyote, and rats. I’m a street nurse in Los Angeles and parking can be a nightmare. A fencing co owner has witnessed my struggle at times and offered me his parking lot (and bathroom!) and I got to talking to him about my dreams of a tortoise garden and expressed all my concerns. We’ve talked several times about ideas and strategies and this is what he recommends:
4’ high fence solid 2’ with 2’ of either a lattice or spaced bars like you’d use on a pergola. We picked colors that compliment the patio bbq area etc. with a self closing gate with a locking latch. He mentioned an anti dig system that goes down and out to prevent things from both digging in and out. I am aware leopard aren’t bid diggers but was thinking of anything trying to dig in. For the top he suggested bifold type system cover partially made from lattice type panels and part uv penetrating panels supported by installed posts beams that allow for it to be open and closed or not depending on rain and or if tort is in locked night box for protection or on those hot nights chooses a different hide to protect from predators. If this is doing too much I could ditch the cover idea and just go with the fence and locking night box. Here in SoCal we’ve seen a lot of rain the past few winters so the idea of a roof over one side is appealing to me to keep the enclosure dryer. I absolutely appreciate all insights as I am wanting to do something permanent that is designed to last and create a happy home for tort. If the tort did decide to sleep in a different hide than box over summer should I force him to use his night box and lock it? I’m going to read the link you posted with my coffee and look forward to your thoughts! Thank you!
As for the plant on the back wall I will get that identified and research it. Ty!

 

[Tom]

Wow these pictures are all great! So more details, we have a very large backyard in the San Gabriel Valley, we also have a pool and 3 dogs. I’ve put off getting a tortoise because obviously safety is paramount. Dogs- massive Great Dane Senior and scared of her own shadow (but you never know right?) she’s not a chewer (thank goodness) but occasionally has dug a few holes usually a sign to us we haven’t been as consistent as we need to be with daily walks. We also have a teacup maltipoo and a shih tzu both under 10#. Dane has never been aggressive with our small dogs but again I just want to be cautious. We also see raccoons, opossums, coyote, and rats. I’m a street nurse in Los Angeles and parking can be a nightmare. A fencing co owner has witnessed my struggle at times and offered me his parking lot (and bathroom!) and I got to talking to him about my dreams of a tortoise garden and expressed all my concerns. We’ve talked several times about ideas and strategies and this is what he recommends:
4’ high fence solid 2’ with 2’ of either a lattice or spaced bars like you’d use on a pergola. We picked colors that compliment the patio bbq area etc. with a self closing gate with a locking latch. He mentioned an anti dig system that goes down and out to prevent things from both digging in and out. I am aware leopard aren’t bid diggers but was thinking of anything trying to dig in. For the top he suggested bifold type system cover partially made from lattice type panels and part uv penetrating panels supported by installed posts beams that allow for it to be open and closed or not depending on rain and or if tort is in locked night box for protection or on those hot nights chooses a different hide to protect from predators. If this is doing too much I could ditch the cover idea and just go with the fence and locking night box. Here in SoCal we’ve seen a lot of rain the past few winters so the idea of a roof over one side is appealing to me to keep the enclosure dryer. I absolutely appreciate all insights as I am wanting to do something permanent that is designed to last and create a happy home for tort. If the tort did decide to sleep in a different hide than box over summer should I force him to use his night box and lock it? I’m going to read the link you posted with my coffee and look forward to your thoughts! Thank you!
As for the plant on the back wall I will get that identified and research it. Ty!

Your plan sounds a little bit over-engineered to my way of tortoise keeping, but I also don't see any harm in any of the things you mentioned. It looks like that area is already dappled shade, so my inclination would be to have the top as open as possible for warm sunshine for most of the year. More shade in summer won't be a bad thing though. I love it that you are putting so much thought into it all. That is just fantastic!

I have 18 inch deep wire in some of my cages, and gophers still dig in. Just throwing that out there for reference. I generally don't do any sort of sunken foundation or digging barriers in any of my tortoise pens for any species, and I don't have problems with anything digging in or out.

I think the four foot fence with the visual barrier around the bottom will do just fine without the roof. All of my tortoise pens in the pics have been outside in the rain, and I've experienced zero problems with any of them. But if you want it, go for it. I would love to see what you invent and put into practice.

Some of the nicest and most gentle dogs turn out to be tortoise chewers. You are smart to do what you are doing and not take the chance. Don't waiver from that caution. It only takes a few seconds of complacency to do permanent damage, and we see it here so frequently. I'm glad that you already understand this peril, and we don't have to convince you. That is just wonderful.

The tortoise should be locked in its night box every night. Rats, ants, and cold night temperatures are simply a fact of life here in Southern CA. The raccoons and other larger nocturnal predators are usually less of a threat than the three I mentioned.

All your questions are welcome. I'm eager and happy to help someone so conscientious. I'll gladly share what I've learned over the years.

 

[wellington]

Yes, you should lock him/her up in the hide each night. This guarantees safety at night.

 

[Renee_H]

Your plan sounds a little bit over-engineered to my way of tortoise keeping, but I also don't see any harm in any of the things you mentioned. It looks like that area is already dappled shade, so my inclination would be to have the top as open as possible for warm sunshine for most of the year. More shade in summer won't be a bad thing though. I love it that you are putting so much thought into it all. That is just fantastic!

I have 18 inch deep wire in some of my cages, and gophers still dig in. Just throwing that out there for reference. I generally don't do any sort of sunken foundation or digging barriers in any of my tortoise pens for any species, and I don't have problems with anything digging in or out.

I think the four foot fence with the visual barrier around the bottom will do just fine without the roof. All of my tortoise pens in the pics have been outside in the rain, and I've experienced zero problems with any of them. But if you want it, go for it. I would love to see what you invent and put into practice.

Some of the nicest and most gentle dogs turn out to be tortoise chewers. You are smart to do what you are doing and not take the chance. Don't waiver from that caution. It only takes a few seconds of complacency to do permanent damage, and we see it here so frequently. I'm glad that you already understand this peril, and we don't have to convince you. That is just wonderful.

The tortoise should be locked in its night box every night. Rats, ants, and cold night temperatures are simply a fact of life here in Southern CA. The raccoons and other larger nocturnal predators are usually less of a threat than the three I mentioned.

All your questions are welcome. I'm eager and happy to help someone so conscientious. I'll gladly share what I've learned over the years.

Thank you! I genuinely appreciate the insights. I was able to identify the plant on the back wall as creeping fig and my understanding is this is toxic so I have my work cut out for me now as the backyard is 10,000 sqft well the land is but the block wall goes all around it and as we know it’s invasive! Thankfully there is not yet a tort out there so I have time to tackle it 🫣😓. Lol. I’ll talk to my fencing person tomorrow and expand the size of the enclosure and post pictures when it is installed. I will forgo the top now that it is clear night box will be locked nightly and I appreciate the reassurance regarding the rain! Excited to know you’re also in SoCal so you understand the rain we’ve had! Have a great day!

 

[Renee_H]

Yes, you should lock him/her up in the hide each night. This guarantees safety at night.

Thank you! Will do 🙃

 

[Renee_H]

Regarding the creeping fig my spouse is asking if I can place a barrier between the enclosure and back wall to prevent the tort from rubbing up against it rather than remove the plant. I said I would ask 🙃

 

[wellington]

Regarding the creeping fig my spouse is asking if I can place a barrier between the enclosure and back wall to prevent the tort from rubbing up against it rather than remove the plant. I said I would ask 🙃

Yes, just make the barrier so he can't get to it. Maybe give space so you can trim it when needed and it not drop in the tortoise pen.

 

[Tom]

Regarding the creeping fig my spouse is asking if I can place a barrier between the enclosure and back wall to prevent the tort from rubbing up against it rather than remove the plant. I said I would ask 🙃

Leaves will inevitably drop in to the enclosure even if the barrier is 3 feet from that wall. Personally, I would not risk it.

Would the spouse be okay if you replaced it with something non-toxic, like honeysuckle, cape honeysuckle, or grape vines?

 

[Renee_H]

Leaves will inevitably drop in to the enclosure even if the barrier is 3 feet from that wall. Personally, I would not risk it.

Would the spouse be okay if you replaced it with something non-toxic, like honeysuckle, cape honeysuckle, or grape vines?

Thank you for offering such awesome alternatives! This is precisely why I wanted to give myself ample time to prepare! I will speak to our landscapers and see what my options are! Thank you both for such great insights!

 

[Renee_H]

Hello and welcome.

You don't need a dig barrier for a leopard. They don't dig.

What sort of fence is the fencing company going to put up? You want something that is a visual barrier. Chain link won't work and the tort will likely injure itself on that sort of thing. Leopards aren't climbers and a 16 inch tall wall will hold them in nicely. I like to use slumpstone block stacked three high with the middle row off set with a half block for strength. This is nice because its easily moved, adjusted, or expanded, and it looks much nicer tan cinder blocks.

If you have dogs, a 4 foot tall cain link fence will keep most dogs out, but you'll need a visual barrier around the bottom for the tortoise. In this case a 12 inch tall strip of plywood will do it. You can get four 12 inch x 8 foot strips from one $20 sheet of plywood, and you can paint it a pleasant color if you like.

You can also use corrugated roofing plastic stuck vertically into the ground with a pressure treated frame around it. I'll show pics.

What do you mean a "locking top" on your fencing? Do you mean the night box? Or do you mean you are making this whole area into a giant cage? But if the latter were the case, you'd need a gate, not a locking top. Please clarify for me. What is the plan?

Also, this area looks great, but 10x20 really isn't large enough for an adult leopard. I'd recommend at least 30x30, or the equivalent. Some females will grow to 18 inches, and this area is really too small for that. SA leopards can get to 24 inches in some cases. If you are confined to just this area, would you consider other tortoise species? Any of the Testudo would fit nicely into an area this size and do well in your climate too.

You will need to ID the plant on the back wall and verify that it isn't something toxic. Though you might read otherwise, tortoises will absolutely eat toxic plants and kill themselves. Some people assert otherwise, but I've seen enough dead ones at my tortoise vet friends clinics to convince me otherwise. I think what happens is the sometimes, some tortoises will choose to not eat a toxic plant if given the opportunity. The short-sighted owner of that tortoise then erroneously concludes that no tortoise will ever eat a toxic plant under any circumstance, and loudly says so on the internet. Beware of what you find on the internet for tortoise care. Most of it is wrong.

Here are some pictures showing what I mentioned above:
View attachment 367600
View attachment 367602

View attachment 367603
View attachment 367604
View attachment 367605
View attachment 367606
View attachment 367607
View attachment 367608
View attachment 367609

I hope these ideas help!

Here is some general tortoise info for you too:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Fence guy came today. We expanded it. It’s going to be a big L basically. 8’x16’x31’x14’ the measurements of the fence the space inside I haven’t done the math but certainly larger than my original plan. Excited to share pictures once it’s done!

 

[Renee_H]

 

[Tom]

View attachment 367991

This is great! I love "L" shapes, and other non-rectangluar shapes.

 

[Renee_H]

Just leaving this here as it’s as good of place as any! My inspiration collage I am working from.

 

[Tom]

Just leaving this here as it’s as good of place as any! My inspiration collage I am working from.

That all looks great! I love that water feature.

 

[Markw84]

Your fence in your ideas collage looks very much like the fencing I build and use for my tortoises.

Here's a new radiata pen I just completed and re-tilled and planted with grazing mix seeds and red clover. More plants to add. Looks very much like your fence in the picture.

 

[Renee_H]

Your fence in your ideas collage looks very much like the fencing I build and use for my tortoises.

Here's a new radiata pen I just completed and re-tilled and planted with grazing mix seeds and red clover. More plants to add. Looks very much like your fence in the picture.
View attachment 368080

How many inches should I ask the fence guy to make the visual barrier? He asked today and I said I wasn’t sure but I’d get back to him. Doesn’t look like yours is the 2’ I was thinking I would need. 😄