Squirt’s upgrade

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I’ve never even thought to look out for the inside of her mouth being pale, but when I’ve seen her yawn, I’d say it is pale inside. Okay I’ll definitely mention that about the injections, I really don’t want her having any😣maybe she needs a full mot, she’s never had a check so now seems as good a time as any if things don’t improve.
With her diarrhoea, temp isn’t likely the issue as both ways I’m measuring(combo and gun) are giving similar results, fiber wise I try to giver some of the dried grasses and flower mix, soaked in some water to make it more appealing, that seemed to do the trick for a while but things seem to be going back to how they were poop wise😞perhaps I am offering too much watery foods, but everything I feed and the ratios don’t seem off😕

I think you’re right, I need to get a new thread up and hopefully they’ll be more folks to chiming in because I’m truly stumped.. I have this fear that squirt doesn’t have the best genetics, she was from a rubbish pet store, perhaps that’s catching up with her, idk😞
I just pray it’s nothing I’ve done, I feel this strong amount of guilt that I’ve potentially put her in a position to become unwell, it’s really upsetting me.

You certainly did nothing to blame yourself for. Just the opposite - it's a great enclosure and you are responsible and attentive keeper.

50% of leafy greens are usually enough for a well-formed poo. With additional dry grass she should not have such problems. You may decrease amount of fruit - if she usually have meals like on your recent photo then it's too much fruit.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Here is a picture of mouth for comparison (https://tortoiseforum.org/media/mojo.12805/) As far as I know, Mojo is healthy on this photo.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

And that's the best Besha's mouth photo. Hopefully she is healthy too.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

You certainly did nothing to blame yourself for. Just the opposite - it's a great enclosure and you are responsible and attentive keeper.

50% of leafy greens are usually enough for a well-formed poo. With additional dry grass she should not have such problems. You may decrease amount of fruit - if she usually have meals like on your recent photo then it's too much fruit.

Bless you for saying that, I still can’t help feel responsible here😞

Yeah her last feed was mainly to lure her out with her favourites but I’m going to reduce fruit a bit over next few days.

Looked at the photo of mojo and squirts tongue is definitely paler, the bubble is back in that one eye and she’s not very active at all, I’m going to work on a in depth thread today, vets are closed for bank holiday so we’ll try again tomorrow😔think I’ll up the temps too

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Bless you for saying that, I still can’t help feel responsible here😞

Yeah her last feed was mainly to lure her out with her favourites but I’m going to reduce fruit a bit over next few days.

Looked at the photo of mojo and squirts tongue is definitely paler, the bubble is back in that one eye and she’s not very active at all, I’m going to work on a in depth thread today, vets are closed for bank holiday so we’ll try again tomorrow😔think I’ll up the temps too

It's so sad that she's sick. Raising temps is definitely a way to go now.
Just in case, she is not sick because of the new viv. And staying in 70s in the old viv would result in much worse condition.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It's so sad that she's sick. Raising temps is definitely a way to go now.
Just in case, she is not sick because of the new viv. And staying in 70s in the old viv would result in much worse condition.

I really hope it’s not been the new one, I feel like I’ve stressed her to the point of becoming this way😞I’m even questioning all the materials now

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

1. She hasn't been stressed TOO much. She was active and exploring.
2. She still has a good appetite. So she's not deadly sick.
3. Any tortoise can get an infection. Or can carry it through the years without symptoms.
4. I don't think materials play significant role here. PVC enclosures are widely used (and plastic contains chlorine), tortoises are bathed in tap water and drink it (I don't even want to think what can be there), Besha lives in a polypropylene enclosure with many other plastics inside (I wasn't as cautious as you and not proud of that).

Also, even it was stress because of moving to the new enclosure or something's off (with temps, lights or substrate whatever). Building a new enclosure was still a right thing to do. This acute condition will resolve. But leaving her in 4x2 viv was a slow demise (yet I still admit, that her care was good enough to prevent severe damage, but she has outgrown the space).

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

1. She hasn't been stressed TOO much. She was active and exploring.
2. She still has a good appetite. So she's not deadly sick.
3. Any tortoise can get an infection. Or can carry it through the years without symptoms.
4. I don't think materials play significant role here. PVC enclosures are widely used (and plastic contains chlorine), tortoises are bathed in tap water and drink it (I don't even want to think what can be there), Besha lives in a polypropylene enclosure with many other plastics inside (I wasn't as cautious as you and not proud of that).

Also, even it was stress because of moving to the new enclosure or something's off (with temps, lights or substrate whatever). Building a new enclosure was still a right thing to do. This acute condition will resolve. But leaving her in 4x2 viv was a slow demise (yet I still admit, that her care was good enough to prevent severe damage, but she has outgrown the space).

I can’t tell you how much hearing your reassuring words is helping me right now! ultimately deep down I know she needed this upgrade, but the fact it’s coincided with her getting poorly is so upsetting, it can’t be a coincidence so has definitely got me feeling so guilty😞

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Posted an in depth new thread, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it😔

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Think like people move from city to city or to another country. It's always a stress, hassle and you always lose something (friends, living close to parents who are getting old, house where everything's familiar). Often you start in a new place exhausted (mentally and financially). But if you move to the place you love, you step by step build yourself a new great life.

"One move is worse than two fires" So even if Squirt was stressed out and got sick, once she will pull through it - she will be much happier than before.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Think like people move from city to city or to another country. It's always a stress, hassle and you always lose something (friends, living close to parents who are getting old, house where everything's familiar). Often you start in a new place exhausted (mentally and financially). But if you move to the place you love, you step by step build yourself a new great life.

"One move is worse than two fires" So even if Squirt was stressed out and got sick, once she will pull through it - she will be much happier than before.

I pray she’s going to get better on her own without the need for intervention, I really do😞

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

One thing has come to my mind... Is the watery eye on the side where UVB and LED lights are when she is sitting in hide? Can you put a sight barrier or turn a hide away from lights? Or just turn off the UVB for two days?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

One thing has come to my mind... Is the watery eye on the side where UVB and LED lights are when she is sitting in hide? Can you put a sight barrier or turn a hide away from lights? Or just turn off the UVB for two days?

Omg it is!! I hadn’t even considered that Alex!! I’ll turn her hide asap! Her lights are about to go off anyway so I’ll do it first thing tomorrow morning! If her eye clears after that, that must be what has upset it, still not sure about the other symptoms mind😕
Would a dimmer on the leds maybe help? Cause we obviously wouldn’t be able to keep the uv off permanently

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It would make complete sense if that’s the eye issue, perhaps cause the uv is new, therefore still too strong, her facing it most the day has irritated that eye(I say most the day, it’s only 4hrs but the leds are 12) perhaps the whole enclosure is too bright currently and that’s the inactivity, and hopefully the yawning a naps is nothing of concern, I’m not sure about the pale mouth but maybe it’s due to her not digesting all her nutrients properly yet.
Either way this is worth a shot, I’m so glad you’ve pointed that out!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Can I ask though would irritation from the light cause the bubbling? I’d understand it being extra watery, but bubbles struck me as respiratory? I could be wrong though, can it happen with irritation?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I’ve caught her a few times today, biting at her front leg that’s the same side as the irritated eye, so bizarre😣she certainly hasn’t actually bit into herself or anything, but was kind of pecking at it, grazing it with her beak, very odd behaviour I’ve not seen before!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

You can try to make a photo, placing a smartphone camera where her eye is supposed to be. You will see if it's really an issue. But just turning the hide away will do the job.

I can't tell about bubbles. But likely it's any kind of irritation.

"Grazing on leg" in fact, may be just the opposite - something is in her mouth causing excessive salivation and irritation and she tried to get rid of it. I suspect it's something on the roof of her mouth. Flushing nare (nostril) on the concerning side with saline solution can help in that case.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

You can try to make a photo, placing a smartphone camera where her eye is supposed to be. You will see if it's really an issue. But just turning the hide away will do the job.

I can't tell about bubbles. But likely it's any kind of irritation.

"Grazing on leg" in fact, may be just the opposite - something is in her mouth causing excessive salivation and irritation and she tried to get rid of it. I suspect it's something on the roof of her mouth. Flushing nare (nostril) on the concerning side with saline solution can help in that case.

I’ll play it safe a turn the hide for now.

Oh gosh ok, I gave her a little bit of the wet grass mix earlier to try and help the diarrhoea, I wonder if a bit has got stuck😣I’ll try and keep a close eye on if she’s doing it tomorrow, if not maybe will try and small flush, though I’m conscious of not stressing her too much atm, she hated her eye doing bless her, but will try it if she keeps doing it😞