Soft shell-any hope??

[Tortoise]

Hi
I am posting this on behalf of a lady I met recently who has a cherry head red foot baby. Its only a few months old.It has been in correct conditions for the most part as far as I can tell from what she has told me.


The baby's eyes were not healthy and I suggested she remove the coil UV light she had and replace with a MVB-that helped clear up the eyes quickly.

The other problem is an increasingly soft shell-getting worse quickly.
I advised her to go to vets.Her vet gave her calcium drops and said it was very calcium deficient.The diet had been correct and calcium has always been used on the foods from the beginning.

She emailed today to say the shell is a lot worse and the breeder had no suggestions for her.

I was hoping if any forum members here had any suggestions for her at all?
I have not had this trouble with my red foots but i had a hermanns hatchling go soft suddenly last year and it didn't survive sadly.
I don't want to dwell on this though as the lady is very attached to the baby.

Thanks very much!!

 

[dmmj]

Without a vet visit it won't make it, even with a vet visit it is still like 50/50. The sooner it is treated the better but still no guarantees. For advice I would soak in baby food and bird vitamins and provide as much natural sunshine as possible.

 

[Tortoise]

Hi
I am posting this on behalf of a lady I met recently who has a cherry head red foot baby. Its only a few months old.It has been in correct conditions for the most part as far as I can tell from what she has told me.


The baby's eyes were not healthy and I suggested she remove the coil UV light she had and replace with a MVB-that helped clear up the eyes quickly.

The other problem is an increasingly soft shell-getting worse quickly.
I advised her to go to vets.Her vet gave her calcium drops and said it was very calcium deficient.The diet had been correct and calcium has always been used on the foods from the beginning.

She emailed today to say the shell is a lot worse and the breeder had no suggestions for her.

I was hoping if any forum members here had any suggestions for her at all?
I have not had this trouble with my red foots but i had a hermanns hatchling go soft suddenly last year and it didn't survive sadly.
I don't want to dwell on this though as the lady is very attached to the baby.

Thanks very much!!

I should have mentioned that this baby has always had the calcium with vit D.

---

Without a vet visit it won't make it, even with a vet visit it is still like 50/50. The sooner it is treated the better but still no guarantees. For advice I would soak in baby food and bird vitamins and provide as much natural sunshine as possible.

Thanks dmmj
There is no natural sunlight here now sadly as temps have plummeted so we are keeping tortoises in now until May.
I'll suggest the soaks although she mentioned the appetite was good thus far.
Another odd thing she told me was the breeder had told her no protein until the baby is 6mths old-I had not heard that myself and my red foot babies got some extra protein as babies in addition to the proteins in the fruit and veggies.I feel bad for this lady, she is quite young and this is her first tortoise.

 

[Jacqui]

Even a few minutes outside can be a big help. Since no natural sunlight, is she using a UVB bulb for it, since it has a calcium absorbtion problem. There is also a liquid calcium she could be soaking it in. Not only is she feeding a "correct" diet, is she making the majority for now, more calcium high ones?

 

[wellington]

Others have suggested with this problem to keep temps a little higher then normal. Unfortunately, as you know, so many with soft shells don't make it. Seen it happen too many times on here. Have you told her to feed it some protein? It might do some good to do that now also. Probably wont do nothing for the soft shell but can't hurt. Tell her we are thinking about her and her little one. But you probably should try to tell her in as nice of a way as possible, that this kinds of cases usually don't make it.

 

[Jacqui]

Also remind her, that as long as it's alive there is hope. So don't give up and keep trying. Sadly though Barb is correct, they seldom survive at this point.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
I just emailed them to her.
I can't remember many high calcium greens-any I'm missing??
Dandelion, mustard leaves, cacti pads, turnip greens, plantain
We are getting short of the best weeds due to having had a few good frosts but there are some around still.
I explained too that this is serious but like Jacqui said-not to give up.
So is it the general opinion it is a calcium absorption issue or just a serious side effect of failure to thrive etc?

Thanks again everyone for helping-she is feeling some comfort in knowing I'm getting feedback from you for her and quickly too-thanks!!

 

[Jacqui]

It could be either or both. We just don't know enough about tortoises to really know much, heck we still don't even know it all about humans yet. It really does not sound like anything she obviously did not do or did do. You can have two and give them the exact same care and one does great and the other fails. We need to keep in mind, that no matter how much calcium rich food/soaks/drops she is giving, without the UVB/sunlight the body can not use it.

When she used the drops from the Vet did it help at all? Slow down any in decline or just like nothing was being done?

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Okay, let's see if I can keep connection long enough to post this again...

Has she been using UVB or getting this animal out into natural sunshine before this?

 

[Tortoise]

It could be either or both. We just don't know enough about tortoises to really know much, heck we still don't even know it all about humans yet. It really does not sound like anything she obviously did not do or did do. You can have two and give them the exact same care and one does great and the other fails. We need to keep in mind, that no matter how much calcium rich food/soaks/drops she is giving, without the UVB/sunlight the body can not use it.

When she used the drops from the Vet did it help at all? Slow down any in decline or just like nothing was being done?

---

Okay, let's see if I can keep connection long enough to post this again...

Has she been using UVB or getting this animal out into natural sunshine before this?

---

I think they have done nothing noticeable.I wonder though if she has the MVB yet as she had one on order.I told her to turn off the coil bulb as the tortoises eyes were partly closed and wouldn't open easily.
It improved the eyes very quickly without the coil UV but it has been without the UV until she gets or got the MVB.
Wouldn't the D3 in the powder help the calcium absorption ??
I did suggest getting it outside for a few mins if possible on the best days.

 

[Jacqui]

It is suppose to. Just was kinda searching for clues.

 

[ascott]

Wouldn't the D3 in the powder help the calcium absorption ??

No, there has to be exposure to the uva/uvb for the body to properly process/absorb/excrete the calcium....

If you have an extra uva/uvb bulb that you can lend her until hers gets to her that would be fantastic....

too much calcium results in secondary deficiencies of zinc, copper and iodine, mal-absorption of essential fatty acids, and formation of calcium-containing bladder stones.

I would really study the diet that is being offered on a regular basis...you will want to make sure that foods way high in calcium in connection with daily calcium supplements are not in itself creating a greater problem....also, the baby is still very young and some pliability is expected...so is the lady perhaps just noticing the feeling of the shell more now that maybe she had to this point? You know what I mean--because if the tort is still displaying a healthy appetite that in itself is fantastic...also, those coil bulbs being ran for long periods of time can do a great amount of damage and with it being not used now, maybe the lady is doing good by offering the babies little eyes a break---is the lady doing anything for the eyes (to help them feel better--cool water gently dripped over the eyes, saline solution gently drizzled and such?)

 

[Laura]

sunshine.... even if she has to use a heat lamp to be warm enough....

 

[ascott]

sunshine.... even if she has to use a heat lamp to be warm enough....

AWESOME suggestion and rocking idea.....DITTO this totally

 

[mightymizz]

Might be too late as this can take some time, but I feel that weighing your tortoise, especially younger ones, helps to determine if they are thriving. Like I said, this will take at least a few weeks to notice any gain, but if the tortoise is gaining weight, it is a good sign, and if not then you know something might be amiss. Just something to also think about, or suggest if the tort lives long enough to check.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for the suggestions.I had thought that the D3 replaced sun in terms of processing calcium-although not superior to real sun of course.(Turtletary doesn't give his indoor red foots supplementary UV)It isn't any wonder why newbies get the wrong info as there are so many debatable topics with tortoises and the whole UV issue is quite a mystery at times.

I live 3 hours away from this lady but she does work in a pet store and I am sure she has access to UV tubes there. (She just wanted to wait for the MVB to come in.) She hadn't heard of the MVB bulbs (being new to tortoises)
She hasn't been answering my questions more recently here so I hope all is ok with the tortoise.
When I first met her in the store a few weeks back she asked if it was normal for the shell to be soft-I said yes as a young hatchling it will be, but over time it will harden.
She said she has definitely seen a softening of the shell and I suspect being new to tortoises if she noticed in her mind- a lot of softening then I would think that it would be quite severe.

Again thank you all for your input.I'll see how the baby is doing hopefully today.
If I was nearer to her I could call in and take a look and lend her lights etc -I'm glad I took her email as she seemed a little nervous about the red foot some weeks back and I offered to send info, links book recommendations etc(which I sent) and she is needing some support now for sure.

 

[Jacqui]

Any news?

 

[Tortoise]

NO not yet I fear for the worst -I emailed her a few times and no response yet...

I feel so helpless and can't get over how many little hatchlings seem to have troubles.
Its a shame we can't get more adults here for pets as I think they are easier especially for beginners.
They seem so delicate as hatchlings.

 

[RedfootsRule]

Unfortunately, the tortoise probably has no chance...Any hatchlings I have ever had, when kept on the best of diet with natural sunlight and daily soaking, soft-shells never get better. They always dies within a few months.

 

[Tortoise]

I actually went to the city where this lady lives yesterday and I called in to see her at her work place.
She said the baby had picked up a bit since a UV tube had been added.She is still waiting for a mvb .
The baby had eaten well for the last 2 days and seemed happier.
She hadn't felt the shell in fear of finding it softer.

I gave her some of my cacti pads to plant and also some for immediate eating and suggested some other foods like papaya too.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the baby

 

[Jacqui]

Sounds very hopeful.