Slow Growth in the Wild

[Nickypoo]

Great, so after posting my last, genius here did a google search. Seems my "annual ring theory" has been discussed time and again.

What was the consensus on the Internet? Hoping you dug through the mess and could give me the short version ;-)

 

[Markw84]

So if your thought on this is correct, with monsoon season being an annual occurrence, you would be able to estimate a wild torts age by the number of wide growth bands on it's scutes, correct? "Estimate" being the key word here.

Yes. Counting growth rings of a 20 yr old or less wild tortoise is a good " estimate" of its age exactly for these reasons. In another post I've even discussed how my sulcatas raised outdoors also so distinct growth rings that coincide exactly with their known age since I hatched them - ranging from 5 - 26. But since defined annual growth seasons aren't at all a give for captive tortoises and even Mother Nature can change thing up in the wild - it cannot be considered accurate. You also can have two growth periods in a year separated by slow/ no growth periods - so you can have an unusual year of two rings. Also, as they age, wear hides growth rings and new rings become increasingly narrow to where counting rings becomes almost impossible.

 

[Slow and steady]

What was the consensus on the Internet?

I didn't, I only read a few lines of the search results. Nick, how are the temps in your enclosure? It looks really tall, and I'm wondering if your'e able to keep temps at the bottom where your little guy needs them to be? Just a thought. Great looking enclosure and tort, btw.

 

[Nickypoo]

I didn't, I only read a few lines of the search results. Nick, how are the temps in your enclosure? It looks really tall, and I'm wondering if your'e able to keep temps at the bottom where your little guy needs them to be? Just a thought. Great looking enclosure and tort, btw.

Thanks @Slow and steady. The temp under the MVB is 105F on the rock and the temp inside the hide is 82F at night. The MVB is 160w because the 100w just wasn't warm enough. Since placing him in this enclosure he has gained 15 grams in 1 month. I have a thermostat set to 82 at night and 84 during the day for ambient temps. I have everything on Wemo outlets and on timers. I keep the MVB on for 6 hours a day, he walks right under it every morning to bask before marching around for food. I also have a HO T5 across the back. I've used a solar meter to make adjustments for UVB. It gets to a UV index of 8-9 under the MVB and 5-7 across the back.

 

[Slow and steady]

So he was in another enclosure with lower temps until now, and now he's putting some weight on in this new, hotter enclosure? I think that's what I picked up. Either way, your temps sound perfect now, from everything I've read. I'm new to this forum, and new to closed-chamber rearing. I'm trying it out with a couple little ones myself. Early on I had a lethargic little one, and it wasn't until I closed his chamber and increased the temps that I saw him come around and start acting like a little tort monster. Sounds like you have everything covered, so to speak, and then some.

 

[Nickypoo]

@Tom or anyone with insight... What are your thoughts on groups and growth?

I know breeders see great growth when they have their babies together and sometimes see slower growth as the babies leave and go to owners (I understand there are many factors involved here). Do you think there is anything about being in a group and feeling more urgency to eat?

My PP that I bought from Rodriguez Chelonians (Chris) had been growing slowly for some time and only reached 100 grams in a year. I was in Cali a few weeks back and picked up two new PP hatchlings from him and put them all together. Since they have been together, they each have gained 12-18 grams in 12 days and the most growth was from my yearling. It's the most he has grown ever and he is attacking his food now. The environment is the same and the food selection identical.

BTW... these hatchlings I bought from Chris are huge! Nov 5th hatch dates and already over 100 grams.

 

[Tom]

@Tom or anyone with insight... What are your thoughts on groups and growth?

I know breeders see great growth when they have their babies together and sometimes see slower growth as the babies leave and go to owners (I understand there are many factors involved here). Do you think there is anything about being in a group and feeling more urgency to eat?

My PP that I bought from Rodriguez Chelonians (Chris) had been growing slowly for some time and only reached 100 grams in a year. I was in Cali a few weeks back and picked up two new PP hatchlings from him and put them all together. Since they have been together, they each have gained 12-18 grams in 12 days and the most growth was from my yearling. It's the most he has grown ever and he is attacking his food now. The environment is the same and the food selection identical.

BTW... these hatchlings I bought from Chris are huge! Nov 5th hatch dates and already over 100 grams.

How many did you have initially, before adding the 2 new ones?

 

[Nickypoo]

How many did you have initially, before adding the 2 new ones?

I only had the one PP alone for a year. I have two PB but they are never with the PP.

 

[Robber]

Your enclosure looks great. I think when KH talks about feeding every other day, he is assuming they have access to natural graze, which is a lot different than limiting one indoors to not eating at all one day. You will have a very active tortoise on days where no food is provided, in contrast to an inactive tortoise stuffed with food that it doesn't have to move around much to get, which isn't ideal either. While I don't follow the every other day thing(or even the one day off a week thing), I think somewhere in the middle of the two extremes is best, and that encouraging a certain amount of natural grazing activity is beneficial(since your cage is good size, you can even spread food throughout different parts of the cage to accomplish this to an extent). If I know it's going to be a nice warm day, and I will be able to put the babies outside for a few hours in the afternoon, I will just feed them very little that morning so they will be inclined to be active and graze outside .