Outdoor Accommodation in a Colder (UK) Climate

[JoesMum]

Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months?

I don’t know much about the Californian climate; you’d need @Tom or @Yvonne G for that expertise.

In theory, with properly heated and insulated accommodation yes you can. Have a look at what’s done with Sulcatas as they cannot hibernate so must be kept active and eating all winter.

The alternative is fridge hibernation so you guarantee temperature stability. Some have reported that doing this even for a couple of weeks helps the tort reset for being awake

 

[Tom]

I appreciate your liking my recent post and wanted to ask for your advice, if I may. I sense my 2 Greek torts living outside could be exhibitinge quasi hibernation behavior. My male, Scooby, is now burrowed in the dirt and just seems to have stopped eating (as of yesterday). My female Sheldane is still coming out to bask briefly but eating much less. We’ve never hibernated a tortoise and I wasn’t planning to start. It would be hard here bc the Bay Area temps fluctuate so much - it can get really warm suddenly even in the midst of “winter”. Is it important to try and fully hibernate them? Would a heated house that’s protected from rain and allow them to come & go be sufficient for keeping them outdoors through these colder months? Also, my male is in soil that is a bit moist so I worry it could get him sick and that I need to move him. Should I create a cold house with straw or the coconut fiber substrate? Thx so so much, any advice you have would be most appreciated.

Read this thread. In it outdoor housing in our kind of climate is explained. You need to separate your two and there are pics of a great way to do it here:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[jensem17]

This is amazing. Joe is living the dream! I imagine that since Joe has the run of the entire garden that there was some extra work required to close any gaps under the fence... would you mind sharing what you did to escape proof your garden? We have a hedged 12x12 courtyard that I have been eyeing as a tort garden.

 

[JoesMum]

This is amazing. Joe is living the dream! I imagine that since Joe has the run of the entire garden that there was some extra work required to close any gaps under the fence... would you mind sharing what you did to escape proof your garden? We have a hedged 12x12 courtyard that I have been eyeing as a tort garden.

Our garden, like many in the UK, is fenced with close boarded fencing all the way round. It’s easy to have a secure are with this. We just have to make sure the foxes haven’t dug their way underneath and created an escape route.

This section isn in Joe’s bit, but it’s currently unobscured by plants so you can see what it looks like!

 

[Sensimillia]

Thanks for the advice

Am a new Sulcata owner and live in East Sussex, UK. Looking to build a outdoor enclosure for her.
Am glad I clicked your post. Not too far away from me so all above (except hybernating) applies.

I have a Dog kennel on order and will also be making a cold frame. I didn't know about slate being good at absorbing heat so will be adding some of that too.

Thanks again

 

[LJL1982]

This has been a huge reassurance that my ibera can go back into his hutch in the garden in the days...but I love the idea of a kennel with a light!

 

[Lyn W]

This has been a huge reassurance that my ibera can go back into his hutch in the garden in the days...but I love the idea of a kennel with a light!

I think JoesMum used to hibernate Joe for the winter, but because of our climate he had warm places to go on our cooler days when he was outside during the summer. Only the best for Joe!!

 

[mchambers58w]

This is an excellent thread. Thank you for posting. I'm very very late to reply to this so apologies for digging it back up!

I have a couple of questions on this, if you don't mind:
1) Could the kennel be used for both basking in the day with a lamp and night time if I used a CHE during the night, as long as I check the temperature and have the two sources on timers? I ask this to see if I could just use one space. Do you see any issues with this method?
2) Would there be any benefit in adding a UVB source in that same enclosure?

 

[mchambers58w]

This is an excellent thread. Thank you for posting. I'm very very late to reply to this so apologies for digging it back up!

I have a couple of questions on this, if you don't mind:
1) Could the kennel be used for both basking in the day with a lamp and night time if I used a CHE during the night, as long as I check the temperature and have the two sources on timers? I ask this to see if I could just use one space. Do you see any issues with this method?
2) Would there be any benefit in adding a UVB source in that same enclosure?

To add, I am based in the UK in Kendal, Cumbria if that helps with advice

 

[Lyn W]

To add, I am based in the UK in Kendal, Cumbria if that helps with advice

Hi and welcome,
What species of tort do you have - that will affect the advice you're given.
This is an old thread and @JoesMum (Linda) hasn't posted for a long while - but she might if she gets an alert now I've tagged her.
Linda lives in Kent so there's generally a difference in temps and humidity etc to further north in colder Cumbria, but I think she used to take Joe indoors overnight and just put him out in the kennel during the day. It's been a while since I read what she says so I could be wrong.
I use the medium version of the kennel for my leopard. It is heated 24/7 with a Habistat Reptile Radiator ( sort of a flat che) which rests on a metal grid that I fitted so that it could lie flat rather than fit it to the sloped roof. He lives indoors all year around in an adapted room with basking lamps and uvb tube etc in but has free access to the garden for basking in the summer.

 

[mchambers58w]

Hi and welcome,
What species of tort do you have - that will affect the advice you're given.
This is an old thread and @JoesMum (Linda) hasn't posted for a long while - but she might if she gets an alert now I've tagged her.
Linda lives in Kent so there's generally a difference in temps and humidity etc to further north in colder Cumbria, but I think she used to take Joe indoors overnight and just put him out in the kennel during the day. It's been a while since I read what she says so I could be wrong.
I use the medium version of the kennel for my leopard. It is heated 24/7 with a Habistat Reptile Radiator ( sort of a flat che) which rests on a metal grid that I fitted so that it could lie flat rather than fit it to the sloped roof. He lives indoors all year around in an adapted room with basking lamps and uvb tube etc in but has free access to the garden for basking in the summer.

Hello

Thank you so much. They’re a Horsfield tortoise around 4 years old.

I think Joe lives in the cold frame at night time but I could be wrong.

Sounds like what you have is what I was asking about so could be done. Many thanks.

 

[Lyn W]

Hello

Thank you so much. They’re a Horsfield tortoise around 4 years old.

I think Joe lives in the cold frame at night time but I could be wrong.

Sounds like what you have is what I was asking about so could be done. Many thanks.

No - the cold frame was just another warm spot for him in a different part of the garden - he spent nights in her conservatory and she hibernated him in a fridge over winter but that's for another day.
Have you done an Introduction yet? If so you may have already been told about these threads but just in case, they will help you with make sure your tort has everything he needs

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

[/URL]

and this will explain all the do's and don'ts of tort keeping https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/

Both have up to date information. There's a lot of old and unsafe information still circulating and pert shops rarely know about tort care an usually sell unsuitable and unsafe equipment for profit but if you follow the advise above you should have a happy and healthy tort. If you check on the forum before buying lamps etc we cab save you money by telling you what to avoid.
Just be aware that Russians are great escape artists - they can climb and dig, so if he is going to have free range of the garden you'll need to have secure boundaries or he'll be off! It will probably be easier to make him a large Houdini proof enclosure.

 

[mchambers58w]

No - the cold frame was just another warm spot for him in a different part of the garden - he spent nights in her conservatory and she hibernated him in a fridge over winter but that's for another day.
Have you done an Introduction yet? If so you may have already been told about these threads but just in case, they will help you with make sure your tort has everything he needs

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

[/URL]

and this will explain all the do's and don'ts of tort keeping https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/

Both have up to date information. There's a lot of old and unsafe information still circulating and pert shops rarely know about tort care an usually sell unsuitable and unsafe equipment for profit but if you follow the advise above you should have a happy and healthy tort. If you check on the forum before buying lamps etc we cab save you money by telling you what to avoid.
Just be aware that Russians are great escape artists - they can climb and dig, so if he is going to have free range of the garden you'll need to have secure boundaries or he'll be off! It will probably be easier to make him a large Houdini proof enclosure.

Thank you. Yes all into done and their home has been quickly adapted to take in all of the great information, although only slight tweaks were needed.

Next, I am making them a larger outdoor enclosure. They already have one that they spend a lot of time in during the summer months but I’m at least doubling it if not more next month in anticipation of the summer.

 

[Lucy Mac]

Background

We live in the UK and have had our Greek, Joe, a male Testudo Graeca Graeca (TGG), since 1970. He is full grown, weighing in at around 3.2kg (7lb) and measures just over 26cm (10”) Straight Carapace Length (SCL)

He would have been wild caught, so was not a baby when he joined the family.

Joe is a “garden tortoise” living outdoors from when he comes out of hibernation, usually March-April, until he goes back into hibernation which can be any time from mid-October onwards. In recent years late November to early December has been typical.

For a tortoise of Joe’s size, there are few predators in the UK that could be a problem to him. If you have a smaller animal, and depending on where you live, then you need to be aware that creatures like foxes, badgers, buzzards, red kite and rats could all be a potential risk.

I have put this document together in an attempt to collate my tips for keeping a tortoise outdoors and healthy when temperatures and weather are not always ideal. I am not using this to offer advice about food, water or hibernation though all 3 get a mention. This is not the only way to do it. It is what we have used successfully for many years.


Climate

We live in Kent in the South East of England where the weather is generally warmer and dryer than much of the UK. However, we do get the cold and the rain, especially in the spring and autumn. Like the rest of the UK, the weather is unpredictable and what happens cannot be guaranteed from one week to the next, sometimes from one hour to the next.

When the sun is out, temperatures at ground level in a sheltered spot are considerably hotter than the air temperature shown on the weather forecast. As with keeping a tort indoors, what harms a tort is being cold and/or wet for an extended period - even getting caught out in a cold shower is unlikely to harm your tort; they happen in the wild from time to time too. Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure that there's no flood risk.

Joe could not live outdoors for this entire period without some help from us. The cool mornings of spring and autumn in particular do not provide enough basking heat for him to get started.


Post hibernation

I look for the air temperature rising to about 11C (53F) by day before Joe is brought out of hibernation. Accuweather’s website for your town gives you a pretty good indication of trends.

When I get him up, he gets a long warm soak immediately and continues to get one twice a day until he is clearly fully awake and eating and drinking properly.

At my herp vet’s recommendation, I add Reptoboost electrolyte to his soaking water in this period to help counteract the dehydration of hibernation.

Depending on the weather outside, Joe will spend much of his time in our conservatory doing very little at first; the floor is cleared of all objects he could eat or attempt to mate with just in case. After a few days, he will do an enormous pee with a load of urate, and probably a poop, and the eating and drinking kicks backs in.

Joe under the Basking Lamp in the conservatory. UVB lighting is not necessary as Joe spends so little time indoors.

View attachment 171773


Basking outdoors

A tortoise, being cold blooded, needs to absorb heat from an external source in order to be active and also to digest food. If the sun is out then everything is great and a well-basked tortoise can be literally hot to handle.

A larger tort like Joe takes longer to cool down than a small one. A good charge under the basking lamp can last him a couple of hours on a cold day. Smaller torts will need to bask more frequently.

If the night is too cold then it takes much longer for a tort to warm up and become active which reduces the amount of time available for it to eat and digest.

In spring and autumn, it can be assumed that the nights will be cold, frost is a risk, and that the mornings will be chilly; some days the sun will be amazing and some days it will rain or worse all day. You must be constantly aware of the forecast and be ready to react to it.


Garden Adaptations

Cold Frame

Your tort needs a good start to the day. Keep him indoors (a box will do) overnight if there’s any risk of frost. If he sleeps outdoors, he needs to be dry and protected from the cold. For this we have a Cold Frame located in a spot in the garden that gets the sun first thing.

If using a cold frame, make sure that rain water doesn't drain through it. Locate it in a sheltered spot, against a fence say, so that the earth underneath it stays dry when it's raining.

Joe usually chooses to sleep in it, but when he doesn’t then I wait until he’s clearly cooled down and then pop him in. Do it too early and he’ll simply go and sleep elsewhere.

Joe’s original was a garden centre cold frame with a perspex (plexiglass) roof – this one was built by my father in law. It has no floor as he likes to dig into the bare earth and has straw in one end so he can push under it. The area in front of the door is empty and a popular basking spot

View attachment 171774
View attachment 171775

The cold frame is great for the mornings in the summer, but in the spring it doesn’t provide enough heat to charge up a tortoise for the day ahead.

Dog Kennel with a Basking Lamp

We have lined this with silver reflective insulation. The roof is hinged and we put a plastic mat on the floor to make cleaning easier. It came with the clear door curtain which helps keep the interior warmer. There’s also a water bowl. The lamp is on a timer, so the kennel is warming up by the time I put Joe in it to start the day. Joe can return to the kennel at any time during the day if he chooses to bask again. Note the step: Joe is big and can climb; smaller torts may need a ramp!

View attachment 171776

Blue Slate Chips

Tortoises know where the warm spots are and will gravitate toward them. Typically they are sheltered by plants, they don’t like to feel exposed, and get full sun. The sun isn’t that warm early and late in the year, so we have laid Blue Slate Chips on the ground. These absorb what little heat is around surprisingly quickly and Joe loves lying on them as he basks.

View attachment 171777

If Joe’s starting to find it a bit hot, he will move so that only part of his plastron rests on the stone chips. This picture was taken on a cold day in April when it snowed later in the day – he still managed to get a bit too warm!View attachment 171778

I have started a thread showing the effect of Blue Slate on temperature. It can be found here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/demonstrating-the-effect-of-blue-slate-on-temperature.141716/


Ongoing

As the year rolls on, the weather does progressively get better in theory and Joe is able to be outdoors 24/7 without extra help from a lamp or soaks.

However, a prolonged wet and chilly spell isn’t unusual at any time. A couple of days of inactivity due to bad weather will do no harm, it happens in the wild, but if the outlook is that the poor weather will be more prolonged then the kennel heat lamp is pressed back into action.

Winding down for Hiibernation

You must keep an eye on your tortoise’s weight throughout the year. There should be a steady gain throughout, probably levelling out late August.

Joe hibernates, so he needs to maintain his peak weight right up until he’s boxed for the winter. By using the heat lamp in his kennel, I find Joe will keep right on eating and slow down of his own accord when the time is right.

Please remember that he has always hibernated and we have learned over many years to read him and the weather forecast together to know when the time is right for hibernation.

Joe will start to eat less as the days grow shorter and the weather cools. He is also less active in the garden. Gradually he will stop eating completely. Most importantly though, there will be little or no weight loss during this period.

I look for the weather forecast to show me daytime temperatures below 10C (50F) for the week ahead before I’ll hibernate Joe. It is not unusual for the first frost of the winter to be the night Joe is packed away.

Thankyou so much for this. I have just adopted a European tortoise of about 80 yrs who has always free-roamed in a garden so I want to keep her free roaming as much as possible. I have been worried about her with this weather and we have brought her inside on the most chilly days. Warmed her up with warm baths 2 x p/day when first out of hibernation (she was passed to us before pooing or eating) but I think now she just needs to bask when it's cold. New lamp coming next week and I LOVE the dog kennel idea if we can work out the electrics (no ext elec supply). I only let her have a complete staying in bed day twice a week as she is a bit lighter than usual and I want her to eat.