Leopard tortoise mouth injury/problems

[coolnewbugs]

Hi everyone,
I recently returned home from college for a few weeks, and was spending some time with my 15 year old leopard tortoise that my mom has been looking after while I've been away.
She is very personable and active, eats very well, and lives in our back yard here on the central coast of California. The yard is mostly sand, and she has a heat mat with plenty of cover and space to roam. Her shell is very pyramided, but it has never seemed to affect her quality of life.
Today I noticed she seemed to be having a difficult time breathing, and upon closer inspection I realized her nostrils were almost completely covered by skin growth. Her beak is a dark color, and I've feared she has had some kind of mouth rot for a while now. I followed suggestions on another post to this forum and after soaking her, gently removed the obstructing skin with a cue tip. She seems to be breathing more easily now, but her nose is raw and pink. I've disinfected the area with hydrogen peroxide, but I'm still very worried about whether I did the right thing or not, and if a vet visit is needed. She has had minor beak injuries before from unknown causes, I suspected it was from eating off of a rough concrete slab. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thank you!
In the attached picture you can see her poor face, it looks pretty rough. She loves the grassland tortoise mix wet food, so a lot of that is dried to her beak as well.
- Isaac

 

[Ink]

She looks like she has sandy substrate on her face. Maybe something irritated her and rubbed her face. What is the substrate

 

[coolnewbugs]

She looks like she has sandy substrate on her face. Maybe something irritated her and rubbed her face. What is the substrate

She lives outdoors and the habitat is mostly sandy soil, as we live near the coast. I've attached a picture of her enclosure

 

[Ink]

I think it's the sandy soil getting stuck in her nose, then rubbing her nose on something to try to breathe. @Tom should be able to help you more.

 

[coolnewbugs]

That definitely could be part of it, as I mentioned in my initial post the skin on her nose had actually grown to cover her nostrils, I removed some of it with a que-tip

 

[Ink]

I understand. @wellington @zovick @ZEROPILOT , might be able to help you too. I think it's the substrate and not having a good soak or deep (safe) water dish available should help too. My leopard is almost 18 years old and when I purchased him as a hatchling, they told me to use sand. On the first day he had one grain of sand in his eye. He couldn't get it out and had sand on his legs. As I watched him, he got more sand on his face. I got him out, rinsed him off of all sand. I cleaned out the enclosure from sand and used different substrate. No sand ever.

They should be able to help you figure out the yard and care for the raw nose.

 

[wellington]

I don't think a vet visit is needed. Can you maybe lay orchid bark or fir bark over the sandy areas and wet it good and try to smush it down into the sand, but not to bury it. I'm thinking the raw nose was her trying to remove whatever it was that you removed with the q-tip.
I would keep an eye on the raw area and keep it clean but don't rub or pick at it.

 

[Tom]

They should never be housed on sand. It causes the problems you are seeing, and it also causes intestinal impaction. I'd be curious to see an X-ray of your tortoise to see how much sand is collected in the gut.

The other problem is the housing. A dog house with a heat may is not nearly enough warmth for this tropical species, and especially not on the cold clammy CA coast with the May Gray and the June Gloom. Your tort needs a properly heated and insulated house. I'm not trying to be mean, but frankly, I'm surprised the tortoise is still alive after all that. They need warm nights. I keep mine at 80 degrees at night. Here is an example of the type of shelter needed:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[coolnewbugs]

I don't think a vet visit is needed. Can you maybe lay orchid bark or fir bark over the sandy areas and wet it good and try to smush it down into the sand, but not to bury it. I'm thinking the raw nose was her trying to remove whatever it was that you removed with the q-tip.
I would keep an eye on the raw area and keep it clean but don't rub or pick at it.

Thank you, I'll definitely check out that option! Poor girl must be mad at me now, I'll be sure to leave her nose alone and check in after a few days.

 

[coolnewbugs]

They should never be housed on sand. It causes the problems you are seeing, and it also causes intestinal impaction. I'd be curious to see an X-ray of your tortoise to see how much sand is collected in the gut.

The other problem is the housing. A dog house with a heat may is not nearly enough warmth for this tropical species, and especially not on the cold clammy CA coast with the May Gray and the June Gloom. Your tort needs a properly heated and insulated house. I'm not trying to be mean, but frankly, I'm surprised the tortoise is still alive after all that. They need warm nights. I keep mine at 80 degrees at night. Here is an example of the type of shelter needed:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Yikes, sounds like I need to make some big changes. Thanks for the advice

 

[coolnewbugs]

They should never be housed on sand. It causes the problems you are seeing, and it also causes intestinal impaction. I'd be curious to see an X-ray of your tortoise to see how much sand is collected in the gut.

The other problem is the housing. A dog house with a heat may is not nearly enough warmth for this tropical species, and especially not on the cold clammy CA coast with the May Gray and the June Gloom. Your tort needs a properly heated and insulated house. I'm not trying to be mean, but frankly, I'm surprised the tortoise is still alive after all that. They need warm nights. I keep mine at 80 degrees at night. Here is an example of the type of shelter needed:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Do you think covering the enclosure with orchid bark and securing a more insulated shelter would be enough? Or do you think I should be looking at rehoming her? I've heard sand accumulated in the gut can be passed through long soaks. She makes giant droppings all over the enclosure very frequently.

 

[Tom]

Do you think covering the enclosure with orchid bark and securing a more insulated shelter would be enough? Or do you think I should be looking at rehoming her? I've heard sand accumulated in the gut can be passed through long soaks. She makes giant droppings all over the enclosure very frequently.

In the past when I've tried to cover an undesirable surface with something else, the old stuff finds a way to bleed through. I think it would be better to excavate a foot or two of the sand out and replace it with some "clean" fill dirt. That's kind of a big undertaking. Alternatively, you could always go get an X-ray and see what is in the gut. If its all clear, then whatever you've got going on is working. The problem with sand is that over time it does not pass, even when they are having regular bowel movements.

The heated shelter is an improvement any way you look at it.