Juvenile redfoot pyramiding

[KrissyLeigh]

My 2 year old redfoot tortoise seems to have the dreaded shell pyramiding. I have had her for one year. From the research I have done it seems like I'm doing everything right.... care is as follows: 3.5 x 1.5 foot enclosure, humid side 70-80%, mixed leafy greens daily, fruit 2x per week, protein 1-2 x per month, basking spot 90° F, uvb light, and pool cleaned regularly plus soaking 2x per week.

My other redfoot is kept in the same setup and is fine, but she is older - probably 5 years? At first I thought maybe the raised scutes was part of the little one's, Janis, growth but it's getting more pronounced. I have been dusting the food with calcium for the past month to see if it helps but I have read that you can over dose them so I'm nervous doing it.

I just adore little Janis and I want her to be healthy - I don't know what I'm doing wrong!!!! Other than the pyramiding she is healthy, good appetite, active, clear eyes, friendly, good poops.

 

[Markw84]

Pictures, Please.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Pyramiding is just about 100% due to not enough humidity.
Nothing else.
But it's not unusual.
In fact a couple of mine have it and they were all raised wild outdoors in Florida. Go figure.

 

[Markw84]

I believe that how much the new keratin growth dries out during active growing periods has much to do with it. So a tortoise that likes to bask more vs. staying under a bush more, may pyramid a bit more despite higher humidity.

 

[KrissyLeigh]

Pyramiding is just about 100% due to not enough humidity.
Nothing else.
But it's not unusual.
In fact a couple of mine have it and they were all raised wild outdoors in Florida. Go figure.

Ok, that makes me feel better. Like I said, the humid side stays around 70-80%, I'm afraid to make it super saturated and risk fungus or something. She is very active though, so she is not always on the humid side. Thanks!

 

[KrissyLeigh]

I believe that how much the new keratin growth dries out during active growing periods has much to do with it. So a tortoise that likes to bask more vs. staying under a bush more, may pyramid a bit more despite higher humidity.

Ok, thanks! The ambient room temp is around 77 F, but she loves her basking spot so she spends a lot of time there, where the humidity is much lower even though I put a humidifier under the lamp. So if that is all it is I'm not so worried... Do any of y'all supplement calcium powder, and if so how much? If it's not an issue I don't want to keep dosing them and risk over calcifying them.

 

[Big Ol Tortoise]

http://turtletary.com/northern.html

PLEASE READ THIS CARE SHEET

 

[Anyfoot]

Ok, thanks! The ambient room temp is around 77 F, but she loves her basking spot so she spends a lot of time there, where the humidity is much lower even though I put a humidifier under the lamp. So if that is all it is I'm not so worried... Do any of y'all supplement calcium powder, and if so how much? If it's not an issue I don't want to keep dosing them and risk over calcifying them.

Hi there and welcome. With your mvb it's constantly drying the carapace of your Tortoise out everytime you little guy sits under it. If you want to reduce any further pyramiding you'll be better off swapping it for a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) and a florescent uvb strip light. The uvb strip light doesnt give off strong enough heat to dry your tort out and the CHE will give you a softer radiant heat(also reducing the drying out process dramatically). Keep your humidity up and spray your torts carapace every morning and evening to imitate the dew.
Taking it a step further, put something under your CHE so your tort can not sit directly under the heat source. A CHE cage with some sort of heat resistant disk in the bottom under the CHE will do it.
Aim for an ambient temp of around 85f near the heat source, hopefully furthest away from your heat source will be around 80/82f.
I'm guessing because you mentioned the ambient room temperature is 77f you have your tort in an open enclosure, if that's the case that's why your tort is sat under the MVB a lot of the time. It's the only place it can get warm enough.
Hope that helps.

 

[Gillian M]

Hi @KrissyLeigh and a very warm welcome to the forum.

Do you give your tort daily soaks in warm water? I for one live in Jordan (the Middle East) where the climate in terribly dry. Therefore I give Oli (my beloved Greek tort) a soak each and every day. I also spray his enclosure with water and mix the substrate with my hands.

 

[KrissyLeigh]

Hi there and welcome. With your mvb it's constantly drying the carapace of your Tortoise out everytime you little guy sits under it. If you want to reduce any further pyramiding you'll be better off swapping it for a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) and a florescent uvb strip light. The uvb strip light doesnt give off strong enough heat to dry your tort out and the CHE will give you a softer radiant heat(also reducing the drying out process dramatically). Keep your humidity up and spray your torts carapace every morning and evening to imitate the dew.
Taking it a step further, put something under your CHE so your tort can not sit directly under the heat source. A CHE cage with some sort of heat resistant disk in the bottom under the CHE will do it.
Aim for an ambient temp of around 85f near the heat source, hopefully furthest away from your heat source will be around 80/82f.
I'm guessing because you mentioned the ambient room temperature is 77f you have your tort in an open enclosure, if that's the case that's why your tort is sat under the MVB a lot of the time. It's the only place it can get warm enough.
Hope that helps.

The humid side of the tank is covered, the hot side is uncovered so they can bask. I don't think the uvb is the problem - it is set pretty far away from them, like 3+ feet depending where they are in the tank. I mist them and their enclosure 3-4x per day. And they have a mister \humidifier that runs during the day.

From everyone a comments and taking into consideration their set up, it seems the problem may be low humidity on the 'hot' side and maybe low temp on the 'humid' side?

I have never used a CHE. Will it dry out the substrate as much as the basking bulb? Where can I find a cage for it? Should I consider putting one in the humid, cooler side as well?

Thanks!

 

[KrissyLeigh]

Hi @KrissyLeigh and a very warm welcome to the forum.

Do you give your tort daily soaks in warm water? I for one live in Jordan (the Middle East) where the climate in terribly dry. Therefore I give Oli (my beloved Greek tort) a soak each and every day. I also spray his enclosure with water and mix the substrate with my hands.

I soak them twice a week. I love in South Texas, about 2 hours north of Mexico on the coast so it is almost always humid and warm, even inside. They love going outside for exercise too!

 

[Anyfoot]

The humid side of the tank is covered, the hot side is uncovered so they can bask. I don't think the uvb is the problem - it is set pretty far away from them, like 3+ feet depending where they are in the tank. I mist them and their enclosure 3-4x per day. And they have a mister \humidifier that runs during the day.

From everyone a comments and taking into consideration their set up, it seems the problem may be low humidity on the 'hot' side and maybe low temp on the 'humid' side?

I have never used a CHE. Will it dry out the substrate as much as the basking bulb? Where can I find a cage for it? Should I consider putting one in the humid, cooler side as well?

Thanks!

I think you should load a photo of your enclosure so we can have a look. How big is this Tortoise that's pyramiding and has it been in this set up from a baby?

 

[Gillian M]

I soak them twice a week. I love in South Texas, about 2 hours north of Mexico on the coast so it is almost always humid and warm, even inside. They love going outside for exercise too!

I do not believe that twice a week is enough.

 

[KrissyLeigh]

http://turtletary.com/northern.html

PLEASE READ THIS CARE SHEET

I will try an alternate heat source and see if that helps.... I have never used a ceramic heat emitter. The temp gradient is about 77 F - 90 F so they can go where they are comfortable.

If the problem is not calcium, which it seems not to be, I will cut that out. I have only been using it recently and very lightly because different sources I have found have conflicting information at supplementing torts. The uvb light is set pretty far back from the babies so I don't think it is the problem - but I have also found conflicting information about providing uvb, so I may stop using it....

Otherwise, their care matches what is in the link you sent me. I will try and up the humidity on the hot side and up the temp on the humid side and see if that helps.

 

[KrissyLeigh]

I do not believe that twice a week is enough.

Really? Different sources all day different things about how many times to soak them. They also have a little pool in their enclosure that they voluntarily go soak in daily. I may start soaking Janis more often.... The older tort, Alice, has a perfect shell and they get basically the same care. It's odd.

 

[Anyfoot]

I will try an alternate heat source and see if that helps.... I have never used a ceramic heat emitter. The temp gradient is about 77 F - 90 F so they can go where they are comfortable.

If the problem is not calcium, which it seems not to be, I will cut that out. I have only been using it recently and very lightly because different sources I have found have conflicting information at supplementing torts. The uvb light is set pretty far back from the babies so I don't think it is the problem - but I have also found conflicting information about providing uvb, so I may stop using it....

Otherwise, their care matches what is in the link you sent me. I will try and up the humidity on the hot side and up the temp on the humid side and see if that helps.

Let's back track a moment. What are you using for your basking spot and what are you using for your UVB source?

 

[Gillian M]

Really? Different sources all day different things about how many times to soak them. They also have a little pool in their enclosure that they voluntarily go soak in daily. I may start soaking Janis more often.... The older tort, Alice, has a perfect shell and they get basically the same care. It's odd.

Well, you are going to come across conflicting info, whatever the subject. I soak Oli daily so as to remain on the safe side: "Better be safe than sorry."

 

[KrissyLeigh]

I think you should load a photo of your enclosure so we can have a look. How big is this Tortoise that's pyramiding and has it been in this set up from a baby?

Ok I'll try and get a pic - my phone camera doesn't really work. This is her third enclosure, I keep upgrading for more space. When I for her at 1 year her shell was smooth, now 9 months later She is showing mild pyramiding. From a couple feet away you wouldn't notice, not until you get up close.

I just want to get it fixed as soon as possible so it doesn't become an ongoing thing as she grows. Ever since I first noticed it I have been trying different things- more misting, diet changes, more soaking, etc but it doesn't seem to be getting smoother which is why I came in here to get some more advice.

 

[Anyfoot]

Ok I'll try and get a pic - my phone camera doesn't really work. This is her third enclosure, I keep upgrading for more space. When I for her at 1 year her shell was smooth, now 9 months later She is showing mild pyramiding. From a couple feet away you wouldn't notice, not until you get up close.

I just want to get it fixed as soon as possible so it doesn't become an ongoing thing as she grows. Ever since I first noticed it I have been trying different things- more misting, diet changes, more soaking, etc but it doesn't seem to be getting smoother which is why I came in here to get some more advice.

Post a photo of your tort too. A side view.

 

[KrissyLeigh]

Let's back track a moment. What are you using for your basking spot and what are you using for your UVB source?

The pics are not the exact ones I use, those types. The uvb is in a desk lamp mounted well above the enclosure and the lighting \heating bull is in a dome fixture above one side of the enclosure