Is this tortoise actually ill?

[zolasmum]

@zolasmum I might actually call Little Tortoise 'Bumble' because all she does is potter about, and also she is yellow and black like a Bumble Bee.

Bumble is a great name ! Zola chose his name - We hadn't thought about it much, but then it came to me that it was Zola - it could suit a male or female - there was a footballer called Gian-Franco Zola,who is a really nice and charming chap, a writer called Emil Zola - and then just after we got him, we found out it meant quietness in Swahili
- and ,of course, if he had been a female, it is a girl's name too. I am sure Zola put the name into my mind!
I hope Tortoise will keep well - dandelion leaves are very good for fibre.
Angie

 

[LJL1982]

Bumble is a great name ! Zola chose his name - We hadn't thought about it much, but then it came to me that it was Zola - it could suit a male or female - there was a footballer called Gian-Franco Zola,who is a really nice and charming chap, a writer called Emil Zola - and then just after we got him, we found out it meant quietness in Swahili
- and ,of course, if he had been a female, it is a girl's name too. I am sure Zola put the name into my mind!
I hope Tortoise will keep well - dandelion leaves are very good for fibre.
Angie

That all fitted together nicely then!!

He does have dandelions but he won't stay still long enough to eat them and keeps trampling them. I'm setting aside half an hour a day to focus on his food and fatten him up a bit 👍

 

[LJL1982]

Perfect. Spend £491 on him...after the additional £290 and he's wolfed down a whole baby gem lettuce today!

I mean that's good (shame it wasn't something slightly more fibrous or nutritios) but eh!!

Now I'm on poop watch again. He has aloe, dandelion and cucumber ready for the morning.

 

[Cathie G]

@zolasmum I might actually call Little Tortoise 'Bumble' because all she does is potter about, and also she is yellow and black like a Bumble Bee.

That's a cute name I love it 🤗 I have a hard time with names too. I name them and then I call them baby boy or girl and darling and such stuff 🥰 I finally did name my last little Zebra Finch Timex 😁it fits so well. He just keeps on ticking. So when I talk to him I call him by his name 😅 I've had the flock he was a part of for longer than I've had my tortoise. I can't believe he's still living☺️🙏 I admit he has grey feathers 🤗 even on his little orange patch on his cheek 😁

 

[SinLA]

I've just had someone take a bit of a pop at me about how hermanni live in sand and therefore obviously you keep them in sand. I did point out in the wild tortoises feed above the ground, from low hanging shrubs etc and are far less likely to ingest it, but they are fairly unwavering in there views.

Pets at Home have a whole range of things that are not suitable for tortoises. The biggest problem in the UK is the treatment of all reptiles as one and the care needs all being considered as the same. People with no care experience go into Pets at Home and are told "I use this for my lizard so...." and they buy it for their tortoise. Worse many reptile shops are the same and many are not reptile shops, they are garden centres/ Pets stores/ gift shops, that also sell reptiles.

its the same here. Amazon is full of "living containers" for reptiles and rabbits that are not big enough for either

 

[SinLA]

@zolasmum I might actually call Little Tortoise 'Bumble' because all she does is potter about, and also she is yellow and black like a Bumble Bee.

LOVE the name Bumble.

 

[LJL1982]

So. Update:

Tortoise had bloods done at last xrays...which showed stones are in stomach.

Bloods showed poor liver markers, bile levels, low white blood cells count (which vet identified as infection and low immune, though that would normally indicate opposite: bodies produce white blood cells when fighting infection), he suggested doing more blood tests for virology and also took stool sample for worms etc causing weight loss. Also had high calcium levels.

He suggested then a low chance of success endoscopy to remove stones followed by cutting shell to remove and also biopsy liver, with liver support meds and immunology (this totalled over 4k) but also said maybe this is not going to work and all conjecture revisit ina few weeks. Maybe we put to sleep if he loses more weight.

Upshot of it I did lots of reading about effect of liquid paraffin (mineral oil) on blood tests. Stopped oil, and supplements, went back to diet of only garden weeds. Pulled him out of enclosure and into spare room (it has no other pet access or human access, is unused and has been risk assessed. Also heat maintains at about 23 in there at ground level). Set him up a basking lamp.

His behaviour was still fine.

He's eating 5 times a week, has put on weight and is generally annoyingly boisterous (abusing ankles and any plant pots I think he might enjoy sheltering under). He's also started toileting albeit not very frequently (2 or 3 times a week).

I have noted he has red on his gums but wonder if this is from efforts to regurgitate over eating (doesn't actually regurgitate or be sick but was grinding jaw, seems to have given up on doing it now) but keeping eye out for mouth rot/ stomatitis signs or worsening.

Attaching his xrays if anyone is interested, and a pic of him today sunbathing, I mean basking...

All advice as always, welcomed and appreciated.

 

[LJL1982]

@Tom @wellington @zovick

 

[LJL1982]

@zolasmum @SinLA

 

[zolasmum]

So. Update:

Tortoise had bloods done at last xrays...which showed stones are in stomach.

Bloods showed poor liver markers, bile levels, low white blood cells count (which vet identified as infection and low immune, though that would normally indicate opposite: bodies produce white blood cells when fighting infection), he suggested doing more blood tests for virology and also took stool sample for worms etc causing weight loss. Also had high calcium levels.

He suggested then a low chance of success endoscopy to remove stones followed by cutting shell to remove and also biopsy liver, with liver support meds and immunology (this totalled over 4k) but also said maybe this is not going to work and all conjecture revisit ina few weeks. Maybe we put to sleep if he loses more weight.

Upshot of it I did lots of reading about effect of liquid paraffin (mineral oil) on blood tests. Stopped oil, and supplements, went back to diet of only garden weeds. Pulled him out of enclosure and into spare room (it has no other pet access or human access, is unused and has been risk assessed. Also heat maintains at about 23 in there at ground level). Set him up a basking lamp.

His behaviour was still fine.

He's eating 5 times a week, has put on weight and is generally annoyingly boisterous (abusing ankles and any plant pots I think he might enjoy sheltering under). He's also started toileting albeit not very frequently (2 or 3 times a week).

I have noted he has red on his gums but wonder if this is from efforts to regurgitate over eating (doesn't actually regurgitate or be sick but was grinding jaw, seems to have given up on doing it now) but keeping eye out for mouth rot/ stomatitis signs or worsening.

Attaching his xrays if anyone is interested, and a pic of him today sunbathing, I mean basking...
.
All advice as always, welcomed and appreciated.

He seems to be doing very well - I'm not an expert, but I would be inclined to let him just go on eating and building up his strength - trying to get as much fibre into him as you can. You have been observing him very closely, obviously, and I'm sure you would notice if something seemed to be going wrong.
I presume you are not considering hibernating him this winter, so as long as he is warm, eating, and lively, you can just enjoy his company.
But as I said, I'm not an expert, and members who are might disagree.
Angie

 

[LJL1982]

He seems to be doing very well - I'm not an expert, but I would be inclined to let him just go on eating and building up his strength - trying to get as much fibre into him as you can. You have been observing him very closely, obviously, and I'm sure you would notice if something seemed to be going wrong.
I presume you are not considering hibernating him this winter, so as long as he is warm, eating, and lively, you can just enjoy his company.
But as I said, I'm not an expert, and members who are might disagree.
Angie

No, I won't hibernate him. He can stay awake and enjoy our company haha

I suspect he is not 100% out of the woods and I'm nervous he might have got a bit of mouth rot...so will have to keep close eye on that!

 

[zovick]

@Tom @wellington @zovick

As long as the tortoise is eating and acting normally, I would not recommend endoscopy and cutting through the shell to get the stones out. Leave well enough alone and the stones will eventually pass on their own or they won't. If they are causing no distress to the tortoise, why risk those invasive surgical procedures? (Rhetorical question).