Hi All, I'm new.

[luke]

Hi everyone, im luke, I live in southern california. About a month and a half ago I purchaced two GPBs from my local reptile store. About a week ago I got a third GPB.

I'm prety sure I have Tort fever know as all I've been thinking about lately is getting another Tort. Perhaps a GPP, Sulcata, or Redfoot.

In fact, I'd like to get your opinions on keeping a Redfoot or two with a small pack of GPBs. I'm curently keeping my GPBs on a mixture of coconut fiber, potting mix, and sand. And my Temps range from about 75 to 100, with about 40% to 70 % humidity. I soak and spray daily. Im sure the redfoot will be comfortable living here but I just dont know if they are a danger to each other as far as disease or agression or anything else a noob like me hasnt taken into account.

Thanks

I will post some pics in the near future.

 

[Jacqui]

Welcome! Looking forward to the pictures of your three.

In my opinion, I would not mix the two species. They have different needs such as the amount of lighting and their diet. Also backing up a bit, are all three of your current guys from the same place? Because adding a new tortoise to a current group, usually means some time in quarantine. Also I would wonder how big your habitat is? Please don't take these questions in a negative way, I am only asking because you hadn't yet covered them (am not trying in any way to come off judgmental okay).

Also sometimes with tor fever, it's good to stand back a little and just take some time before you get your next tortoises.

 

[luke]

Welcome! Looking forward to the pictures of your three.

In my opinion, I would not mix the two species. They have different needs such as the amount of lighting and their diet. Also backing up a bit, are all three of your current guys from the same place? Because adding a new tortoise to a current group, usually means some time in quarantine. Also I would wonder how big your habitat is? Please don't take these questions in a negative way, I am only asking because you hadn't yet covered them (am not trying in any way to come off judgmental okay).

Also sometimes with tor fever, it's good to stand back a little and just take some time before you get your next tortoises.

My first two torts were from the same Store, but I think from different clutches. My second tort was from another dude, and we basicaly soaked them together and housed them together before we realized quarantine was a safer course of action.

Its been a over a week now and the torts are doing better than ever. Perhaps its their new substrate, and having better humidity. Or perhapts there is just less stress now that there is a third Tort. Turty is a lot more outgoing than before and seems a lot less "intimidated" by my other tort.

My enclosure is 2' x2', and I also have another slightly smaller aquarium style enclosure that I got at a garage sale and I've already got it dailed in with nice substrate and lighting. I can easily suport another tort If I need to.

TORT SPECS

Koopa(Aka Mr. Koop): W=50g L=56mm W=45 H=36mm

Turty: W=49g L=56mm W=52mm H=34mm

Dora: W=35g L=54mm W=47mm H=36mm

These measurements where taken very crudley. I hope I can find a cheap caliper this week so I can get accurate measurements of my babys.

Dora is the new chick on the block. Shes seems healthy and active. For the first few days she ate very little, but she's seemed to come around more and more. I havent used mazuri for my torts but I belive Doras keeper had them on mazuri.

Can you tell me more about the differencess between housing RF vs Leos? I know that RF enjoy more fruit and are known to eat more bugs and worms and such. But from what I've read it seems that the RF will be fine eating anything the GPBs eat. Cycle in some fruit from time to time and things should be okay I figure

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Enclosure Details

2x2 foot.
coconut fiber, pottingmix, Sand, Three violas (flowers), one good sized water dish, one large hallow log, one fake tree branch, and a stack of bermuda hay wich they love to jam themselves into. The substrate is at least 3" deep so they have plenty of room to dig, wich they do frequently. I've also set up some "boulders" to act as obsticles for them to conquer and they seem to enjoy the challange.

 

[pdrobber]

Hi, welcome!

 

[Jacqui]

Most redfoots, especially hatchlings, tend to not want bright lights or high level UV type lights, which your Leos are going to be needing. Overall your redfoots will end up needing a higher humidity range then the Leos, too. Leos like it a bit hotter temp wise, too.

When you say "cycle in some fruit" does that mean the Leos will get some fruit, too? Or are you planning on feeding them in another location? Will you be offering the Redfoots those "more bugs and worms"?

 

[jackhill]

Hi, Luke -- great tortoise names you picked out.

 

[luke]

Most redfoots, especially hatchlings, tend to not want bright lights or high level UV type lights, which your Leos are going to be needing. Overall your redfoots will end up needing a higher humidity range then the Leos, too. Leos like it a bit hotter temp wise, too.

When you say "cycle in some fruit" does that mean the Leos will get some fruit, too? Or are you planning on feeding them in another location? Will you be offering the Redfoots those "more bugs and worms"?

I figured the day I "cycle in some fruit" I would separate the torts. Not that I wouldnt give my Leos any from time to time but I figure I'd be feeting my RF fruit about once or twice a week and my Leos perhaps once a month as a snack.

As far as the bugs and worms go, im not too concerned about them right now. What concerns me is discomfort or physiological/metabolic changes caused by less than Ideal habitat preferences between the two species. I'm also concerned about illness but given that I'm getting captive bred stock there should be little concern im hoping.

Do you guys feel that a RF would be too cold and too dry given that my temps range from about 70 to 100 and 50 to 70%? Please keep in mind that I will upgrade the size of their enclosure very soon. Would my Leos be unhappy or unhealthy living in an enviornemnt where the humidity is in the 70s or 80s?

Has anyone out there housed these two species together (while young) and encountered any major problems or illness or other issues I need to consider?

 

[coreyc]

Welcome to the forum Luke

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Luke:

Welcome to the forum!

Quite a few folks keep multiple redfoot tortoises together. They seem to appreciate being in groups.

Most other types of tortoise would rather be alone. They don't like to share the good hiding places or their food.

We've always advocated keeping different species of tortoise separately because of the pathogens. Tortoises on different continents have evolved with different pathogens inside them. Each species has become accustomed to their own pathogens, but when mixed with other species, they can get sick and even die.

Like I said, this has been what we've espoused in the past. Now-a-days, with all the captive bred animals in the market, its not quite as important as it used to be, but I still wouldn't mix the two you are interested in. Their habitat requirements are just too extreme.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

I agree. Its a bad idea to mix species in the same enclosure.

It sounds like you are off to a great start. If your substrate is damp, which it ought to be for humidity, I'd ditch the bermuda hay. You don't want it to get moldy.

I'd add a proper humid hide box. This will go a long way in helping to grow them smooth and prevent the pyramiding that is so common to leopards.

I'd ditch the sand ASAP too. It has the potential to cause a lot of problems. Some people use it and get away with it (I used to.), but its a big unnecessary risk.

Last thing: You said temps are 75-100. Is 75 the absolute lowest low on the coldest night? That is right on the edge of too cool for babcocks with all that moisture and humidity, in my opinion. While they are little babies, I'd shoot for 80 as an absolute low. When they get bigger in a couple of years and don't need so much moisture and humidity, the night time lows aren't so critical.

 

[Zeely]

Welcome! Good luck with your babies! Leopards are so pretty.

 

[luke]

Thanks for the warm welcome, and the good info.

I change out the Bermuda hay every week for that(mold) reason. Also because I got a whole sack of it for about 3 bucks. They really love using it as a hide and as a "bridge" that allows them to scale things they would not normaly be able to.

A proper humid hide box is in the works. I dont own any plastic Containers so I'll wait till I can get one from my mother. In the mean time I have been spraying them and soaking them several times a day, and they do enjoy soaking in their enclosure pool.

What problems does sand present? Do they try to eat it? does it get in their eye or somthing? I really dont want to change it now. Is sand really so dengourous that I need to re-do my set up after just one week? :/

My temps typicaly stay around 70 to 75 in the cooler parts of the enclosure. Im not to sure how bad it gets at night but I allways leave the heater runing or a night time heat bulb.

I will likley get the redfoots regardless of wather or not I will keep them with my leos. The main reasons I want to keep them together for now is because I live in a small apartment rite now and space is limited. I carved out a place where I can give my torts a good sized habitat(28"X50" double decker) and I dont want my RF to be excluded from it just because he's differnt.

Does anyone here have any personal expericance keeping these two species together?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Luke: It really sounds like you have your mind made up. But please reconsider.

Redfoots are pretty stressed out by constant bright light.

Leopards need the bright light/heat in order to grow smoothly (one of the things).

Sand irritates the eyes and causes impaction.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Welcome!

 

[Jacqui]

I use the sand in my bedding mixture, I love it and so do my critters. If you have a healthy, properly hydrated animal you should not have problems with the sand. Using straight sand or a really high percentage of it, could cause impaction issues. Also if you place flat rocks around your feed dishes, it will even lower the chances further of problems, as there will be less dragging of substrate into the food. Just about every kind of substrate can cause problems of some sort or the other.

 

[B K]

Hello and Welcome

 

[luke]

Hi Luke: It really sounds like you have your mind made up. But please reconsider.

Redfoots are pretty stressed out by constant bright light.

Leopards need the bright light/heat in order to grow smoothly (one of the things).

Sand irritates the eyes and causes impaction.

My mind is prety made up about getting a RF, It just might not be as soon as I hoped.

Thanks for the info on the sand. I may have exagerated on the amount of sand I used on my substrate its really more like 20% sand or maybe a little less.

I should have some pics up by tonight.

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If you'd like to see some pics of these little guys. Check out my other thread.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Three-Leopard-TORT-Babys#axzz1Eqffsa7v

 

[coreyc]

If your going to get a redfoot why cant you get separate enclosure for it why do you want to house them together?

 

[luke]

Space is kind of tight in my appartment, I have plans for making a bigger tort enclosure for my Leos. If I did get a RF I wouldnt want him to miss out on all the space and hiding spots. But from what I've read it seems most people feel that these two species should not be mixed because RF get harshed by the UV the Leos thrive on. Also because they prefer more humid conditions.

I'll probly end up getting a Gpp or two and hold off on the RF.

 

[Tom]

Luke, we are all trying to impart the importance of keeping different types of torts in separate enclosures. There is all sorts of debate about the scientific classification of the two available types of leopards here in the states, (Gpb and Gpp) but I think everyone will agree that they are two different animals from two different parts of Africa. They just should not be mixed. In my experience the Gpp are quite a bit more boisterous, bullish and active. They also tend to grow larger and faster. I would not want that around my baby babcocks. People housing these two subspecies together as adults has also led to a whole big mess. Often its difficult to tell if what you have is a mix or not. Pure babcocks and pure pp are a very precious commodity, since they can no longer be imported, so we need to keep what we have as pure as possible.

Please get another tort. Get 10 more. Just house the different ones separately. Please please please.