[split] keep hermanns indoors or outdoors for winter
Yvonne,
Of course we debated with respect, no use to be sharp or rude, since that demonstrates nothing. I was too very nice impressed of the friendly attitude and respect, shown even by experienced keepers here. Lucky me not meeting the "volatiles" LOL!
About moving the discusion: please excuse me, but I don't know where specifically. "Hibernation for Testudo" should be the most appropriate, and if you could copy this debate from the point you consider and paste it to the tail of that topic, it would be the best, in my opinion. If you allow me, I would do it myself. Until then, I will continue here.
GB,
Yes, not many old tortoises in captivity, and age is difficult to guess- from the stage of leveled growth rings, it remains only the degree of damage accumulated with age, to approximate.
I don't find brumation risky, if the tortoises have a proper enclosure, with diggable soil and excess moisture protection- or just letting them to prepare and, after they decide to remain underground, digging them up and placed in all kind of hibernacula you prepared for them, including fridge.
No, I don't find hypocritical what you do, but playing safe. In your humid area, it's risky indeed. But I don't think the Indoor team will freeze to death- why do you say that? Are they not digging at the right time? I don't think that they miss the "signals" of winter. Please explain more!
I received an old captive T. ibera, and after spending the whole season outdoors, she was able to digg herself down right before -4...-5*C morning arrive! She is very old, and spent at least 9 years in tropical regime, plus an unknown interval before.
Her first "brumation" after receiving her in last December started in... February, and was only 6 weeks long. Then outdoors. I wanted to offer her even a shortened brumation, to "reboot" her system, because a full one seemed quite risky, since her previous conditions were not quite the best way to strengthen an animal's health. Her breath even smelled like tobacco! Now she quitted !
Do you think the CB's kinda forgotten how to prepare for brumation? Even so, I think that they can be teached, and having the first brumation under close inspection, in a fridge or any easy to check variant. Then, next year, they will surely know what to do.
Tortoise,
Where are you living? If your Hermanni lives outdoor, and it's strong and fit, you can try a 3 months brumation after careful preparing. If you want details, I can write them, it's a simple scheme. Better would be if let alone until it burries by itself, and then recover it and brumate under controlled conditions- if outdoors it's not a choice.
Cheers!
T.h. boettgeri and T. ibera- interesting field observations and conservative actions in Bulgaria:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Useful-LINKS#axzz1dkobQY1p
... especially here, brumation infos from SE-Bulgaria:
http://www.geachelonia.org/Attachments/2en.pdf
You will be surely impressed, very interesting.
Yvonne,
Of course we debated with respect, no use to be sharp or rude, since that demonstrates nothing. I was too very nice impressed of the friendly attitude and respect, shown even by experienced keepers here. Lucky me not meeting the "volatiles" LOL!
About moving the discusion: please excuse me, but I don't know where specifically. "Hibernation for Testudo" should be the most appropriate, and if you could copy this debate from the point you consider and paste it to the tail of that topic, it would be the best, in my opinion. If you allow me, I would do it myself. Until then, I will continue here.
GB,
Yes, not many old tortoises in captivity, and age is difficult to guess- from the stage of leveled growth rings, it remains only the degree of damage accumulated with age, to approximate.
I don't find brumation risky, if the tortoises have a proper enclosure, with diggable soil and excess moisture protection- or just letting them to prepare and, after they decide to remain underground, digging them up and placed in all kind of hibernacula you prepared for them, including fridge.
No, I don't find hypocritical what you do, but playing safe. In your humid area, it's risky indeed. But I don't think the Indoor team will freeze to death- why do you say that? Are they not digging at the right time? I don't think that they miss the "signals" of winter. Please explain more!
I received an old captive T. ibera, and after spending the whole season outdoors, she was able to digg herself down right before -4...-5*C morning arrive! She is very old, and spent at least 9 years in tropical regime, plus an unknown interval before.
Her first "brumation" after receiving her in last December started in... February, and was only 6 weeks long. Then outdoors. I wanted to offer her even a shortened brumation, to "reboot" her system, because a full one seemed quite risky, since her previous conditions were not quite the best way to strengthen an animal's health. Her breath even smelled like tobacco! Now she quitted !
Do you think the CB's kinda forgotten how to prepare for brumation? Even so, I think that they can be teached, and having the first brumation under close inspection, in a fridge or any easy to check variant. Then, next year, they will surely know what to do.
Tortoise,
Where are you living? If your Hermanni lives outdoor, and it's strong and fit, you can try a 3 months brumation after careful preparing. If you want details, I can write them, it's a simple scheme. Better would be if let alone until it burries by itself, and then recover it and brumate under controlled conditions- if outdoors it's not a choice.
Cheers!
T.h. boettgeri and T. ibera- interesting field observations and conservative actions in Bulgaria:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Useful-LINKS#axzz1dkobQY1p
... especially here, brumation infos from SE-Bulgaria:
http://www.geachelonia.org/Attachments/2en.pdf
You will be surely impressed, very interesting.