BOLIVIAN Redfoot - rare Giants

[Redfoot NERD]

I don't know head scale nomenclature. I see a great deal of variability in it though. The carapace scute coloration seems to be the most consistent trait. The mild orange colored head on one of them is a really nice color. I have more watching to do.

The main thing about the head patterns is the almost complete covering of 'color' on virtually everyone of the Bolivian locale - especially in the much older "mature" specimens. Compare with other locales.. North of the Amazon in particular.. some of those are almost melanistic!

Others from the few acquired earlier this summer -









Note the plastron on this very young one -

 

[cdmay]

Those gorgeous animals NERD.
In answer to your question about where they all went, I think a lot of the tortoises in that shipment died shortly after importation.
I spent about two hours picking through that group (500 + adults) and selected a pair that would blow your eyeballs out of your head. The male didn't have a single scale other than orange/red on his rear end and rear legs. He also had giant yellow blotches on his carapace similar to the female above.
But sadly, neither of my two ever ate a single thing and they both just sat there and died. I think I lost both of them within about ten days. As they were expensive (for the time) at $80.00 each, I was gunshy on getting any more of them.

 

[Anyfoot]

Those gorgeous animals NERD.
In answer to your question about where they all went, I think a lot of the tortoises in that shipment died shortly after importation.
I spent about two hours picking through that group (500 + adults) and selected a pair that would blow your eyeballs out of your head. The male didn't have a single scale other than orange/red on his rear end and rear legs. He also had giant yellow blotches on his carapace similar to the female above.
But sadly, neither of my two ever ate a single thing and they both just sat there and died. I think I lost both of them within about ten days. As they were expensive (for the time) at $80.00 each, I was gunshy on getting any more of them.

Did any of these 500 Bolivians have a waist band?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Did any of these 500 Bolivians have a waist band?

@Anyfoot

Craig I'm wondering - do you have a male that you are wanting to be a Bolivian.. but it has a "waist band" ? lol

I'll ask the breeder...

 

[Anyfoot]

@Anyfoot

Craig I'm wondering - do you have a male that you are wanting to be a Bolivian.. but it has a "waist band" ? lol

I'll ask the breeder...

No. I know someone who has a redfoot that looks Bolivian to me but it has a waist band. I'm waiting on his response to see if I can use his photos for you guys to look at. If it's not s Bolivian I'm stumped. The guy is in Miami.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

@cdmay

Thanks Carl ... yeah there's something about this locale !!! I'm with you - few [ before seeing these ] could ever compare with those North of the Amazon. Second favorite of mine would be the ALL YELLOW Colombians...

 

[Redfoot NERD]

No. I know someone who has a redfoot that looks Bolivian to me but it has a waist band. I'm waiting on his response to see if I can use his photos for you guys to look at. If it's not s Bolivian I'm stumped. The guy is in Miami.

@Anyfoot

sent you an email..

 

[Anyfoot]

Still waiting for email Terry.

I've noticed Some northerns and Brazilians have nearly full colored heads when they hatch(not as full as Bolivians) , as they grow these existing colored scales loose color, so the new growth that comes through is dark creating a patchy head of color in the adults.
With the Bolivians they hatch with a full or near full colored head, but as they grow the new growth remains colored giving a full colored head in adults. Strange how one looses and one maintains the color.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Still waiting for email Terry.

I've noticed Some northerns and Brazilians have nearly full colored heads when they hatch(not as full as Bolivians) , as they grow these existing colored scales loose color, so the new growth that comes through is dark creating a patchy head of color in the adults.
With the Bolivians they hatch with a full or near full colored head, but as they grow the new growth remains colored giving a full colored head in adults. Strange how one looses and one maintains the color.

email sent to amkco address

There's an echo in the house guys... LOL

That's the nature of the beast @Anyfoot -- good observation

Just got a reply from my breeder of these Bolivians - Never seen a male Bolivian like that ( ask him about 'wasp-waist' MALE )

 

[Redfoot NERD]

@Will

Running low on examples Will -

2016.. about as "red-orange" as you will probably see - shown at about 6 months old -



Almost wish I would have kept this one...





A little different ...

 

[Redfoot NERD]

A favorite 'series' of sniffing out and eventually biting ... a rare treat of kale - early 2017 hatched.. maybe 2 months old -

 

[Bryan]

No. I know someone who has a redfoot that looks Bolivian to me but it has a waist band. I'm waiting on his response to see if I can use his photos for you guys to look at. If it's not s Bolivian I'm stumped. The guy is in Miami.

I'd love to see a pic or pics of that animal.

 

[cdmay]

Anyfoot, I can't recall much about the shape of the carapace of those animals except that they were NOT 'pinched in the middle' or peanut shaped like the northern animals I had been used to seeing and keeping.
But then like the older eastern Brazilian males we see these days, some of the males (like the one I had that died) did have some flaring of the rear marginals of the carapace. This creates somewhat of a waist, I guess...at least in some people's eyes.

As for confusing looking tortoises that are around today---especially in south Florida---don't forget that in those days many keepers simply kept all of their animals together regardless of their origin. Some even intentionally bred the various forms together with the (short sighted and irresponsible in my opinion) idea of seeing 'what I can 'create'. This has resulted in a number of now adult tortoises floating around that are a mix of traits.
This is the problem with not maintaining localities as separate groups in captivity as it creates unidentifiable 'mutts'.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Thanks Carl - @cdmay - couldn't have said it better!!

How many times have I jokingly said Craig - @Anyfoot - " Those that live in Florida have these big yards.. pick a spot and put a fence around it and whatever comes into Miami.. that's what goes in there !!! " In my article I stated - Factoring in the number of tortoises that were imported from the entire northern range, over a number of decades, it has become inevitable that locale hybrids/integrates exist in today’s breeding programs, making it increasingly difficult to identify individual origins. [ originally mentioned in the September 2006 Reptiles magazine ... and quoted from the Nov/Dec 2015 article above. ]

Carl I still have the June 2002 Reptiles magazine with your little " Colombian " kid on the cover .. lol! [ No you can't have it haha ]

 

[Bryan]

Anyfoot, I can't recall much about the shape of the carapace of those animals except that they were NOT 'pinched in the middle' or peanut shaped like the northern animals I had been used to seeing and keeping.
But then like the older eastern Brazilian males we see these days, some of the males (like the one I had that died) did have some flaring of the rear marginals of the carapace. This creates somewhat of a waist, I guess...at least in some people's eyes.

As for confusing looking tortoises that are around today---especially in south Florida---don't forget that in those days many keepers simply kept all of their animals together regardless of their origin. Some even intentionally bred the various forms together with the (short sighted and irresponsible in my opinion) idea of seeing 'what I can 'create'. This has resulted in a number of now adult tortoises floating around that are a mix of traits.
This is the problem with not maintaining localities as separate groups in captivity as it creates unidentifiable 'mutts'.

I was just looking for my copy of South American Tortoises (yet to find it) as IIRC there was a male in the Gran Chaco that had a slight taper at the waist. Nothing nearly as extreme as the northern locale's but it still showed a little diversity among the Gran Chaco animals in terms of appearance. Completely agree about people breeding various locales, when I initially started looking for Bolivians and even a few years ago, I found people producing intergrades.

 

[cdmay]

Thanks Carl - @cdmay - couldn't have said it better!!

How many times have I jokingly said Craig - @Anyfoot - " Those that live in Florida have these big yards.. pick a spot and put a fence around it and whatever comes into Miami.. that's what goes in there !!! " In my article I stated - Factoring in the number of tortoises that were imported from the entire northern range, over a number of decades, it has become inevitable that locale hybrids/integrates exist in today’s breeding programs, making it increasingly difficult to identify individual origins. [ originally mentioned in the September 2006 Reptiles magazine ... and quoted from the Nov/Dec 2015 article above. ]

Carl I still have the June 2002 Reptiles magazine with your little " Colombian " kid on the cover .. lol! [ No you can't have it haha ]

Yeah, sadly your comments about everything being mixed together in Miami isn't much of an exaggeration. Even now.
There is a photo of a Colombian animal that I bought in 1974 in that issue that was photographed by Bill Love. But it's not the one on the cover. That one was owned by Louis Porras I think.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Yeah, sadly your comments about everything being mixed together in Miami isn't much of an exaggeration. Even now.
There is a photo of a Colombian animal that I bought in 1974 in that issue that was photographed by Bill Love. But it's not the one on the cover. That one was owned by Louis Porras I think.

As in - Louis Porras - who was instrumental in stocking virtually every zoo on the planet ?!? @cdmay

I'll see if I can find yours Carl - I stand corrected.. now that I remember you told me that before [ this morning! lol ]

 

[Redfoot NERD]

As in - Louis Porras - who was instrumental in stocking virtually every zoo on the planet ?!? @cdmay

I'll see if I can find yours Carl - I stand corrected.. now that I remember you told me that before [ this morning! lol ]

As I recall there were SEVERAL imported from Colombia early on... exportation was closed and then just a few years back opened again for very few shipments and closed again. Have had only a few over the years.. none of which were "PURE" ! ( yellow ) - like yours Carl .

The article that yours was in @cdmay had very ludicrous ( down right wrong actually ) info stated.. regardless that it was written 15 years ago.

Are you still with us Craig ? @Anyfoot

 

[Anyfoot]

Still here,I'm always in the background Terry, Taking note and Gathering information.
Do we know if Bolivians still get exported out of Bolivia to anywhere in the world?

 

[cdmay]

As I recall there were SEVERAL imported from Colombia early on... exportation was closed and then just a few years back opened again for very few shipments and closed again. Have had only a few over the years.. none of which were "PURE" ! ( yellow ) - like yours Carl .

The article that yours was in @cdmay had very ludicrous ( down right wrong actually ) info stated.. regardless that it was written 15 years ago.

Are you still with us Craig ? @Anyfoot

That's her. My second red footed tortoise ever. Darn expensive tooo...$5.00.