Behler Concervancy!

[tortadise]

Just wanted to see if anyone from southern cali had been to behler recently to see any progress on the Ploughshares they have. I was talking with Bill a day or so ago and didnt realize he had given his male to them for the females they recieved from china back in september 2011. Also if anyone has any contact with anyone there I would love to get into a partnership with them on some species to work with.

Well that is all.

 

[Neal]

I spoke to someone a few months back that was in contact with one of the higher ups at Behler. They said that the male was mating with the females (I think they only have one or two adult females there), but nothing significant happening yet. The rest of the group they received were sub adults. (Second hand information here)

 

[tortadise]

Yeah thats what bill told me. They got 8 females but only 2 of them were adults and the rest were sub-adults. Hopefully they will have some success. Maybe we need to hook them up with our friend in Borneo who is nice and successful at breeding them.

 

[Tom]

They are very secretive and allow no visitors. They don't respond to emails and show no interest in interacting with "common" tortoise folk. I personally know several friends of theirs that are allowed entry any time they wish, and several people that they do business with, but they won't even talk to me much less consider letting me in the gate. They don't even want me to know where it is. When Tomas Diagne for the African Chelonian Institute was here, we was staying up there with them. They would not allow me to come pick him up at the gate. We had to arrange for another friend to come pick him up, and take him back to his place, and I could pick Tomas up there. I was not to be told where the Center was or allowed to drive anywhere near there to pick up my friend.

I understand their need for privacy and secrecy, but they are over doing it and alienating a lot of potential allies. When multiple close trusted friends of theirs vouch for someone, that should be enough. There are people that they trust, but becoming one of those people seems to be a pretty difficult task.

Also, they have a new policy of not selling any surplus animals to the public any more. Apparently, the AZA folks have strong-armed them into not letting private breeders play with the "special" tortoises anymore. This is great news since the Zoos and large facilities have such a great track record compared to a small time private breeder, right Greg? (Sarcasm intended here. Zoos are a dismal failure, in most cases, compared to a private breeder without all the beaurocracy and red tape.)

Yes. I am a little bitter and jaded about it, but I think its warranted in this case. They have the ultimate Disneyland of tortoises there, and refuse to let the people who truly know what it is and appreciate it, even observe it from a distance. I understand that they can't just let any Tom, **** or Harry walk through the gates. But when they have four or five of THEIR most trusted longtime friends saying, "Hey, I personally know this guy, and he's legit and not a thief or criminal.", but they still flatly refuse to let me see the most amazing tortoise collection in existence, it is frustrating and a little hurtful...

Good luck Kelly. I hope you get farther than I did. Maybe in time YOU can get ME through the door.

 

[Neal]

Also, they have a new policy of not selling any surplus animals to the public any more. Apparently, the AZA folks have strong-armed them into not letting private breeders play with the "special" tortoises anymore. This is great news since the Zoos and large facilities have such a great track record compared to a small time private breeder, right Greg? (Sarcasm intended here. Zoos are a dismal failure, in most cases, compared to a private breeder without all the beaurocracy and red tape.)

Yes. I am a little bitter and jaded about it, but I think its warranted in this case. They have the ultimate Disneyland of tortoises there, and refuse to let the people who truly know what it is and appreciate it, even observe it from a distance. I understand that they can't just let any Tom, **** or Harry walk through the gates. But when they have four or five of THEIR most trusted longtime friends saying, "Hey, I personally know this guy, and he's legit and not a thief or criminal.", but they still flatly refuse to let me see the most amazing tortoise collection in existence, it is frustrating and a little hurtful...

That sucks. I share your bitterness.

It's amazing what a couple of bad apples will do to the bunch...now I'm angry.

 

[tortadise]

Well Bill recommended me to get in touch with them so maybe He can waiver getting his male ploughshare back if they treat me like you. Thats very shady. I understand the privacy reasons and whatnot. But it seems if they know someone and they are recomended that doesnt stop anything at all in my opinion. I dont think your being jaded. I got the same reaction when I had a meeting with USFW local hub officers here at DFW airport. They grilled me on my organization and questioned why I would be a better place to house confiscated animals than a Zoo. I use to take in all sorts of animals they confiscated years back, and now they just look at me like. "well what would you do for them?" well Id probably do more good for the species than any other zoo could even wish. I get very wish washy on zoos, and large concervancies. Its just they have about the only species left I need to work with and I figured they would be a good source. We actually the fife brothers probably would be a better contact for me anyways. What are they up to?

 

[Tom]

Don't let my bad experience stop you from trying. I hope you will succeed where I have failed. They may perceive you as less of a threat since you are so far away and not just a few miles down the road at their friends place.

It is a tenant of my personality that when I meet with failure it serves to motivate me. I know where the place is and I could get in the gate any time I want, but lies would have to be spoken, and that is not right. Many people come and go in and out of there on a daily basis while conducting normal business. I know some of them and have turned down several offers to go there, because it would be under false pretenses. I want them to invite me in the gate when they know darn well who and what I am! Mark my words, somehow, someday, I will be invited in there.

It's just silly because if someone wanted to steal from them it would not be difficult at all. Tortioise rustlers do not fare well in my presence. It is sad when in a futile effort to protect yourself from thieves and criminals, you alienate a thousand allies.

 

[tortadise]

Well said. Im going to keep doing what I do whether I like the people and theyre weird ways. Its all about the animals to me. I dont like people all that much, but I can tolerate them, and respect them when they are one with the animals and passionate like I am to torts. Maybe I will get invited out and have to meet up with you and take you in with me.

 

[Tom]

Maybe I will get invited out and have to meet up with you and take you in with me.

That would be great, as long as we don't have to concoct some sort of cockamamie story...

If you ever come out this way you have a standing invitation to my place. I'd love to show you around and talk about torts and big plans for the future. My wife makes a mean home cooked meal too.

 

[Vincentdhr]

There was an article on the Behler Conservancy's Ploughshares in the January 23rd New Yorker. The article stated that the male had no interest in mating with the females, even when mating Radiateds were put into his enclosure. This surprised me, as earlier they had talked about how the brushes were kept separately to avoid contamination, yet they just stick the tortoises in the same enclosure. The author also called the Pyxis species subspecies. However, overall a very interesting article.

 

[bigred]

Well said. Im going to keep doing what I do whether I like the people and theyre weird ways. Its all about the animals to me. I dont like people all that much, but I can tolerate them, and respect them when they are one with the animals and passionate like I am to torts. Maybe I will get invited out and have to meet up with you and take you in with me.

I dont like people all that much either

 

[mctlong]

They are very secretive and allow no visitors. They don't respond to emails and show no interest in interacting with "common" tortoise folk. I personally know several friends of theirs that are allowed entry any time they wish, and several people that they do business with, but they won't even talk to me much less consider letting me in the gate. They don't even want me to know where it is. When Tomas Diagne for the African Chelonian Institute was here, we was staying up there with them. They would not allow me to come pick him up at the gate. We had to arrange for another friend to come pick him up, and take him back to his place, and I could pick Tomas up there. I was not to be told where the Center was or allowed to drive anywhere near there to pick up my friend.

I understand their need for privacy and secrecy, but they are over doing it and alienating a lot of potential allies. When multiple close trusted friends of theirs vouch for someone, that should be enough. There are people that they trust, but becoming one of those people seems to be a pretty difficult task.

Also, they have a new policy of not selling any surplus animals to the public any more. Apparently, the AZA folks have strong-armed them into not letting private breeders play with the "special" tortoises anymore. This is great news since the Zoos and large facilities have such a great track record compared to a small time private breeder, right Greg? (Sarcasm intended here. Zoos are a dismal failure, in most cases, compared to a private breeder without all the beaurocracy and red tape.)

Yes. I am a little bitter and jaded about it, but I think its warranted in this case. They have the ultimate Disneyland of tortoises there, and refuse to let the people who truly know what it is and appreciate it, even observe it from a distance. I understand that they can't just let any Tom, **** or Harry walk through the gates. But when they have four or five of THEIR most trusted longtime friends saying, "Hey, I personally know this guy, and he's legit and not a thief or criminal.", but they still flatly refuse to let me see the most amazing tortoise collection in existence, it is frustrating and a little hurtful...

Good luck Kelly. I hope you get farther than I did. Maybe in time YOU can get ME through the door.

I'd be jaded too! Not cool! Did they give you a reason why they're treating you like a criminal? It would really hurt my feelings if someone treated me this way.

My two burmese stars were surplus from Behler, although I've never been to their 'Disneyland' either. I bought the tortoises from someone who got them from Behler. I'm sad to read that they're no longer making surplus animals available to the public. It was a good way to give back to the community and strengthen ties between themselves and private breeders. Sounds like thats no longer a goal? Its too bad.