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Thanks so much for the detailed response. I thought it was the build up of nitrites that drives need to do water exchanges. I guess with them fed outside the tank this is not an issue?
Does high nitrite content in water affect turtles?
- Thread starter GotTort
- Start date
Beautiful terrapins, Terry. I love them. You obviously have the care for these beautiful turtles well figured out.
@GotTort - a properly sized biological filter eliminates nitrites, and converts to relatively inert nitrate. It takes quite a while for nitrates to build up to a point needing water change. Adding plants to the water / filter will also use the nitrate as a natural fertilizer.
@GotTort - a properly sized biological filter eliminates nitrites, and converts to relatively inert nitrate. It takes quite a while for nitrates to build up to a point needing water change. Adding plants to the water / filter will also use the nitrate as a natural fertilizer.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 257
Just trying to make sense of stuff I've read on virtually every turtle and aquarium site
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@GotTort - it's not easy! Anybody know the answer?
Nitrites in my aquarium [ which is toxic to their gills ] is held down by plastic plants directly under the light that grows serious algae.. that feeds off the nitrites. But terrapins don't have gills.. so the salt protects them(?).
Nitrites in my aquarium [ which is toxic to their gills ] is held down by plastic plants directly under the light that grows serious algae.. that feeds off the nitrites. But terrapins don't have gills.. so the salt protects them(?).
nitrites as is ammonia in excess is toxic to all animals as far as i know ., they do know the why's and how's of it ..... maybe diamondback terrapins are an exception , i never heard of it ........... i'm sure they can take more than fish , but kept in a toxic environment will certainly effect their health..... you could probably find information by googling "nitrite toxicity " .........
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TERRAPINS KEPT NATURALLY / PROPERLY IN BRACKISH WATER.. WHICH IS THE INTENT OF THIS POST... AND THE FURTHEST FROM MY CONCERN. SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT?
my point would be to correct the statement that nitrites are not harmful to turtles , and noone knows their effects .......... they're actually toxic to all animals , fish are like the canaries in a coal mine ........ and honestly very few folks keep their turtles naturally ...... nice fish and turtles you got there ............
The closest to that accusation was - And how exactly does "high nitrites" impact Malaclemys t. ? No one really knows ( if at all! ). They don't know how it does..... and I would imagine IF someone did keep them overcrowded.. overfed in the same not-properly 'filtered' fresh water then it would most likely impact the eyes first.. and then like the ".. remarkable results.. " post.
When did someone say that nitrites are not harmful to turtles? When you quit taking things out of context.. adding words that are not said.. then maybe you will be a help Mark1 - because right now you are a part of the problem by not advocating "natural / proper" care for diamondback terrapins in captivity! All you've said is ".. very few folks keep their turtles naturally".. HOW IS THAT ENCOURAGING ??? It's not...
i may have misinterpreted your responses to the mention of nitrites being turned to nitrate by proper filtration , that nitrates are not as toxic , and water changes or plants keep it in check .......... your response
i mistook as implying nitrite in your aquarium water is not that important , may not matter whatsoever , and it actually might be "nonsense" ........ in hindsight obviously a mistake on my part , as that would certainly contradict your thoughts of keeping them in a natural/proper environment , and certainly noone keeping aquatic turtles artificiall could possibly think a properly working nitrogen cycle, and overall water chemistry is not of the utmost importance ........... not much more to it than water quality and light ……. And yes I do agree that dbt should be kept in brackish water , it's the environment they are certainly adapted to live in
GO AWAY.. ignore mark1 everybody.. he seems to be some kind of evolutionists and believes diamondback terrapin water turtles have "adapted" to living in brackish water. He refuses to accept them as being created to live in brackish water. I doubt he has any real experience with Diamondback Terrapins -- which are one of the most unique creatures on the planet!!!
@GotTort the size and/or quality of a filtration system for diamondback terrapins is far less important than the salt content in the water.
Depending on the 'brumation' procedure differences [ time ] between "Northern and Gulf Coast" - ['Northerns being much longer and much more severe temps] - which means the salt % has to be lowered for them to be able to ingest it - and during that time there has been small ( fungus? ) spots develop on their shell. The 'Northerns' don't eat during that time - which is 4 months typically! There has been an occasion where ice had formed on the water surface and the small filter was pumping water across it. Obviously this is a trying time.. not seeing any sign of life! But once the temps are gradually brought up - and the lights are also - they "come to life" and start eating and basking as usual. The brackish transition starts again to a low level.. waiting for their time outside. Then when the outdoor temps stay above 50F ( at night ) they are back outside for the summer. Shortly after they get the sun working on them they ( females ) shed and they are like new. THE BRUMATION PROCESS PROVES OUT WHEN THEY BECOME GRAVID!
Anything I thought I knew about water turtles since 1976 - in many cases - didn't apply to "Brackish Water Terrapins" - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1576370532623418/
@GotTort the size and/or quality of a filtration system for diamondback terrapins is far less important than the salt content in the water.
Depending on the 'brumation' procedure differences [ time ] between "Northern and Gulf Coast" - ['Northerns being much longer and much more severe temps] - which means the salt % has to be lowered for them to be able to ingest it - and during that time there has been small ( fungus? ) spots develop on their shell. The 'Northerns' don't eat during that time - which is 4 months typically! There has been an occasion where ice had formed on the water surface and the small filter was pumping water across it. Obviously this is a trying time.. not seeing any sign of life! But once the temps are gradually brought up - and the lights are also - they "come to life" and start eating and basking as usual. The brackish transition starts again to a low level.. waiting for their time outside. Then when the outdoor temps stay above 50F ( at night ) they are back outside for the summer. Shortly after they get the sun working on them they ( females ) shed and they are like new. THE BRUMATION PROCESS PROVES OUT WHEN THEY BECOME GRAVID!
Anything I thought I knew about water turtles since 1976 - in many cases - didn't apply to "Brackish Water Terrapins" - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1576370532623418/
cant y'all just calm down ?
this is plain and simple----
1. Is DBT more sensitive to water quality change than other species?------YES
2. does high nitrites impact DBT's health? -------WE DONT KNOW yet
3. is high nitrites an indicator of bad water quality ?------------in most cases, YES ( i have a master degree in environmental engineering, and i approve this fact)
Conclusion------- high nitrites is a warning sign of bad water quality, which may also comes with bacteria bloom ,low Oxygen saturation level ,etc in a closed water body bio system . Thus it is bad for DBT's health
this is plain and simple----
1. Is DBT more sensitive to water quality change than other species?------YES
2. does high nitrites impact DBT's health? -------WE DONT KNOW yet
3. is high nitrites an indicator of bad water quality ?------------in most cases, YES ( i have a master degree in environmental engineering, and i approve this fact)
Conclusion------- high nitrites is a warning sign of bad water quality, which may also comes with bacteria bloom ,low Oxygen saturation level ,etc in a closed water body bio system . Thus it is bad for DBT's health
1. Is DBT more sensitive to water quality change than other species?------YES Of course when FRESH water is involved!
2. does high nitrites impact DBT's health? -------WE DONT KNOW yet Keep them in Brackish Water and it's not a concern
3. is high nitrites an indicator of bad water quality ?------------in most cases, YES ( i have a master degree in environmental engineering, and i approve this fact) What does a masters degree in environmental engineering have to do with caring for Diamondback Terrapins the way they were created.. and that's living in Brackish Water? How "out-of-balance" does the Brackish Water environment have to get to compromise the reptiles that live in it?
Enchilada I've come to accept the "educated" as who they are .. most of which have little or any personal experience.. and I don't hold that against them.
Why is this nitrite thing on this thread? It has nothing to do with how well Diamondback Terrapins thrive when kept in Brackish Water. Why not take your "Nitrite" thing to your own thread on that subject. That's plain and simple.
Can any of y'all tell me why you are talking about nitrites here?
Can any of y'all tell me why the idea that Diamondback Terrapins should be kept in FRESH water.. since they aren't created to deal with that "environment"?
come on man, i'm on your side....i totally agree with you, i just wanna add more points
Thank you.. @enchilada [ sure wish I could call you by name ] .. really appreciate your agreement!!! Here's my point all along:
Not one time have I ever done a nitrite check of the Terrapin water .. have the stuff for the 'brackish water' fish aquarium to test with and found that the algae growing on the plants under the light keeps the nitrites in balance.
Never occurred to me that nitrites would be an issue for brackish water terrapins -- never occurred to me to not create a balanced system for whatever turtle or tortoise I've kept and bred.. which they do. And what's the best sign that it's all in balance? -- when they reproduce!
There was a time when "filtration over-kill" was critical when I kept them in "Fresh water".. which is not natural for Diamondback Terrapins. So I guess that nitrites are a concern when they are kept in fresh water. The nitrites could be sky high in all of my tubs and tanks... I'm currently keeping well over 1100 gallons of Brackish and 300 gallons of fresh for them to drink/feed in .. and in the process of setting up another 300 Brackish / 110 fresh combo. So all I'm hearing is how dangerous high nitrites are. How does it manifest?
WHEN IT WORKS DON'T FIX IT
I've always meant to comment on your cat avatar man.. our Sammi -
I only did the "battle of the nitrites" for few months, and that was very labor intensive. Miss the fish and the plants... Can't really contribute there but what I did want to comment on is your cat! Omg!!!!! I love the calico cats!!!! Not to highjack your thread but your kitty is GORGEOUS!!!!Thank you.. @enchilada [ sure wish I could call you by name ] .. really appreciate your agreement!!! Here's my point all along:
Not one time have I ever done a nitrite check of the Terrapin water .. have the stuff for the 'brackish water' fish aquarium to test with and found that the algae growing on the plants under the light keeps the nitrites in balance.
Never occurred to me that nitrites would be an issue for brackish water terrapins -- never occurred to me to not create a balanced system for whatever turtle or tortoise I've kept and bred.. which they do. And what's the best sign that it's all in balance? -- when they reproduce!
There was a time when "filtration over-kill" was critical when I kept them in "Fresh water".. which is not natural for Diamondback Terrapins. So I guess that nitrites are a concern when they are kept in fresh water. The nitrites could be sky high in all of my tubs and tanks... I'm currently keeping well over 1100 gallons of Brackish and 300 gallons of fresh for them to drink/feed in .. and in the process of setting up another 300 Brackish / 110 fresh combo. So all I'm hearing is how dangerous high nitrites are. How does it manifest?
WHEN IT WORKS DON'T FIX IT
I've always meant to comment on your cat avatar man.. our Sammi -
here are my last 2 kitties: the petite tortoiseshell is my old lady (15) Toffi and the white big boy is Maxi. I'll be looking for a kitten soon. I hope to find calico like yours
Oh for Pete's sake! These few posts were split off from Terry's turtle thread because they were going off topic asking about nitrites and Terry doesn't like off topic in his threads. This thread is now about "Does high nitrite content in water affect turtles?" We're no longer talking about specifically DBT, but water turtles in general. Everyone has a right to post their opinion on this subject. So just cool it and go with the program. (and Terry, please note that pictures of cats have nothing to do with nitrites in the turtle water, and yet we've allowed them to stay. Some of us aren't as picky as others of us.)
Not sure what all that was about Yvonne - I was replying to enchilada from my original thread... I didn't change it to ALL water turtles.. which IS a totally different world altogether - Malaclemys terrapin are totally unique reptiles!
And my direct question to him was direct to him - are we not allowed to post different ideas / pics on our own thread ?
This isn't your thread, Terry. This thread was split off from your thread because you complained that people were going off topic.
OK So if this is indeed a thread about the title's question, I will jump in now, as I was reluctant to before. Terry doesn't like technical, but don't know how you can answer that question without it. But I do think the question is a great one and basic to creating an aquatic environment.
I find the title and question misleading to people. Nitrite should be a very temporary and soon eliminated chemical in an aquatic environment. In setting up an aquatic habitat, there is a cycle you go through to get it "established" with natural beneficial bacteria to balance a healthy system. That is the Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate cycle. If you have detectable ammonia or nitrite in your pond or aquarium, you have a problem and the filter is not working properly, or not yet established. Biological waste produces ammonia which then some bacteria converts to nitrite. Other bacteria then come into play and convert the nitrite into inert nitrate. The first two - Ammonia and nitrite - is extremely toxic to fish. Turtles are pretty much unaffected EXCEPT if you have Ammonia and/or Nitrite you have an unhealthy water situation where bad bacteria will readily grow. (this can include salmonella and many others) This can lead to skin, shell, eye irritations and infections.
If your filter is working and good colonies of the good bacteria are established, the ammonia is almost immediately converted to nitrite and then the nitrite to nitrate. The Ammonia and Nitrite readings in my pond and aquariums is 0.0 The NITRATE should be the question here. It is harmless to fish and other life unless it reaches extremely high levels. But... It does continue to build up over time and the only way it is reduced is through water changes or live plants that consume the nitrate as a natural fertilizer.
It takes a pretty high level of nitrate to even start affecting fish. A lot of water systems have very high nitrate levels right out of the tap. Many lakes and streams have very high levels and you see the water plants, string algae, hyacinth, etc. take over and go crazy. I don't think it would affect a turtle at all, unless, the system has such a build up of waste in stagnant areas that bad bacteria starts to take hold in those pockets.
I find the title and question misleading to people. Nitrite should be a very temporary and soon eliminated chemical in an aquatic environment. In setting up an aquatic habitat, there is a cycle you go through to get it "established" with natural beneficial bacteria to balance a healthy system. That is the Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate cycle. If you have detectable ammonia or nitrite in your pond or aquarium, you have a problem and the filter is not working properly, or not yet established. Biological waste produces ammonia which then some bacteria converts to nitrite. Other bacteria then come into play and convert the nitrite into inert nitrate. The first two - Ammonia and nitrite - is extremely toxic to fish. Turtles are pretty much unaffected EXCEPT if you have Ammonia and/or Nitrite you have an unhealthy water situation where bad bacteria will readily grow. (this can include salmonella and many others) This can lead to skin, shell, eye irritations and infections.
If your filter is working and good colonies of the good bacteria are established, the ammonia is almost immediately converted to nitrite and then the nitrite to nitrate. The Ammonia and Nitrite readings in my pond and aquariums is 0.0 The NITRATE should be the question here. It is harmless to fish and other life unless it reaches extremely high levels. But... It does continue to build up over time and the only way it is reduced is through water changes or live plants that consume the nitrate as a natural fertilizer.
It takes a pretty high level of nitrate to even start affecting fish. A lot of water systems have very high nitrate levels right out of the tap. Many lakes and streams have very high levels and you see the water plants, string algae, hyacinth, etc. take over and go crazy. I don't think it would affect a turtle at all, unless, the system has such a build up of waste in stagnant areas that bad bacteria starts to take hold in those pockets.
Was not aware this was not my thread Yvonne. Sure wouldn't have asked the off-topic question had I known.
Seldom if ever do you see me going "off-topic" .. but it seems to be common-place here. Apparently asking to stay "on-topic" is not correct either. All in interpretation.. it is.
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