The sickness/illness/unwellness thread

[Livingstone]

Start of URI... Bubbles mean problems, squeek means bigger problem. Make a vet appt ASAP.

And of course... The usual questions, how old is the animal? Is the tort outside or inside? whats the humidity? whats the temp in the basking spot? What is the temp where it sleeps?

Please bump your temps up 5 degrees to speed up the torts metabolism to fight the infection. Also reduce handling if the tortoise is young, the handling stresses the tort and puts added pressure on the immune system... Think about it, you wouldn't recover from the flu if you were scared sh!tless.

Again call a vet, you need to get on an antibiotic for the bubbles, all the other stuff is not going to cut it. Gentocin is the drops I used, both in the eyes and nose in the morning.

***Also, pics are worth a thousand words, so anything you can show, from habitat to diet is worth seeing.

I think it's about a year old because the shell's diameter measures 4 inches. He lives outside on the grass during the day for sunlight and inside the moment it gets cold so he can be under a heat lamp all night. I'm not sure how to measure the humidity because I'm so new to this, but his sleeping tank has fir substrate for humidity and a hide box with a wet sponge on the top inside of it. I let him eat grass and mostly clover with crushed cuttlebone and I have soaked him 3-4 times since i bought him last friday. If I have absolutely no way to get him to a vet, what should I do?

The routine seems good. You need to get a hygrometer, and thermometer so you can check the humidity and temperature. Without knowing what the temperature or humidity is its very difficult to say where the problem is.

Outdoor time is great, so it leads me to believe your problem is coming from his indoor habits... Again, we need to know specifics of temperature and humidity. Please post pics of how he is kept... It makes helping you sooooo much easier.

Also, when you soak him, make sure the water is warm to your touch.

 

[erikacs]

Sorry the pic is a bit dark, but it was the best my camera could do =/ It's starting to look like he is having trouble opening his left eye now =//

 

[onarock]

Sulcataaaaaas... never mind. I would keep him/her between 95-98 for the night and try and get to a vet. I would also recommend reading post #2 of this thread.

 

[John]

Respiratory infections aren't too common with sulcatas. Really outside of pyramiding from being too dry and MBD from a total lack of UV, they are pretty bulletproof, unless someone gets one of those chronically dehydrated babies that I addressed here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hatchling-Failure-Syndrome#axzz1FxQR4RJi

Well I guess the coil bulb and the eye thing is a potential problem too.

I guess I'm saying that outside of a few common pitfalls (too cool, no UV, coil bulbs, poor diet, or HFS), they just don't get sick very often. Maybe addressing these things is what you had in mind?

i have too disagree here,again i'm no expert,but my statements are based on things i have actually seen for myself,that being obviously sick animals being sold at shows and person after person coming too this forum with the first post of my sulcata is sick.their is no living thing that is "bulletproof"every animal has its level of required care and i'm sure the experts will agree (atleast the honest ones)that even with that stuff sometimes happens.what concerns me about this statement is that anyone can read it without being a member here and some who may have a sick tort may be too embarrassed too ask for help thinking they failed in keeping a "bulletproof" animal healthy,i wonder, can an irressponsible statement be as damageing too a tort as the wrong information or lack there of? alot of newbie's too the forum are children or people who have never owned a reptile before so in my opinion people who are regarded as experts here should take that into account when posting publically.again these are just my opinions and i am not trying too attack anyone i just felt it needed too be said maybe i'm wrong i don't know. john

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Too bad it hasn't been mandatory to include what type tortoise you keep in order to sign up. Then Josh would have that info at his fingertips and we could see the percentages. I'm with Maggie on this one. I felt sure there were more redfoots than sulcatas.

Run a poll for fun! Results could be interesting.

---

Could it be that the majority of members have sulcatas on the forum is why this section is most popular with problems, etc. I think alot of first time new keepers get a sulcata, I know I did. They are very available and not exspensive for the first timer. Also, each species is so unique, hard to classify sysptoms as overall. Just a perspective.

I dont know if you are trying to be funny, but you are probably correct, it may be easier to diagnose the keeper than the tortoise.

I just always thought this, based on the high volume of hatchling sulcatas and based on the post numbers for redfoots vs sulcatas.

 

[Robert]

Squamata wrote: "alot of newbie's too the forum are children or people who have never owned a reptile before so in my opinion people who are regarded as experts here should take that into account when posting publically."

I like forums and I use them for many different hobbies that I am involved with. BUT, all forums seem to share a few things in common. Lack of an introduction from new members until asked to do so, intros that don't include name and location, desperate cries for help with no follow up, same question posted multiple ways in separate threads, etc.

Another big consistent theme amongst forums is a wide rift between experienced members and 'newbies'. I think John makes a great point here. It is especially important here because the topic involves the health and well being of live animals. Using Tom's 'bulletproof' as an example: Tom is obviously very experienced with reptiles and animal care in general. Many aspects of basic husbandry are without a doubt second nature to him. So for Tom, sulcatas are probably relatively 'bulletproof' given that in his care they will without a doubt receive a basic level of care which promotes good health. In his care, illness is and should be very rare. (I'm only using Tom as an example here. Many others on the forum also obviously have extremely high experience levels and their beautiful healthy pets are a testament to that.)

But.... Forums also attract 'newbies'. When someone jumps into a hobby, makes a purchase, gets over their head, BOOM they search for a forum to answer all of their questions. This usually causes many newbies to kick themselves wishing they had done some forum hopping before making their initial investment, as they are now undoubtedly paying more money to repurchase what they should have bought in the first place. (Insert any hobby.)

I do get concerned here sometimes when the health of a living animal is concerned. It seems LOTS of people buy a tortoise because they believe that it is a low maintenance 'bulletproof' pet. Low maintenance can be a very misleading term. What is 'low maintenance' to someone like Yvonne who cares so wonderfully for so many healthy pets, may actually be considered 'extremely high maintenance' for someone who is searching for their first ever live pet.

So what to do when a person of unknown experience level shows up on the tortoise forum with post number 1 and says, "I just bought a turtle and I think he/she is sick. I did tons of research before bringing a sulcata into my one room apartment. I keep him in a flower pot full of sand and he isn't moving, eating, his eyes are runny etc. I have no money for a vet and if I did I have no idea if there are any vets within a thousand miles that see reptiles. Please help."

This person probably dosn't have any means of accurately assessing temps or humidity. They often guess and it is apparent in their usual replies. They are probably intimidated by advice which involves specifics that they don't understand.

In that situation, my first thought is: find a vet, find a vet, FIND A VET! But due to the nature of forums, this is where the rift between experience and inexperience often shows itself. An experienced keeper can most likely handle these situations from home. Adjust temps, baby food soaks, monitoring health signs, etc and these experienced members often are quick to help and provide advice. I think it might be a good idea to dumb it down even more. Create some stickies in a health section of the forum which will answer even the most basic questions: What is a vitamin soak and how to do it? What signs mean I should seek immediate Vet advice vs wait and see if he improves? Basic sign of URI. Symptoms of 'new environment' stress vs illness and tips for managing. Etc. These could be closed thread stickies. Then when a person signs on, skips looking around for any answers, skips any introduction and goes right for the "Help Me post #1" we can easily cut and paste links to these common questions as they specifically pertain the the OP. Also, maybe someone can come up with a basic health questionnaire for someone concerned about a torts health. All the standard questions would be on there: age, signs/symptoms, enclosure setup, temps, etc. (This form could also be brought to the vet if the poster does in fact need vet attention.)

The flow would go something like this: Newbie signs on and posts the standard "I'm new, help me" post. Existing member replies with the link to the questionaire. Newbie fills out and replies. Existing members reply with appropriate links to basic health care stickies. This would streamline the process a little and may help to keep things on a basic level for newbies.

I apologize because I am rambling now and have gone way off topic and original post. Moderators please delete if this is too far off post.

---

Good afternoon tortoise forum, Sulcata owners specifically.

As a leopard owner I obviously don't follow directions very well!

 

[John]

excellent response rob.i'm thinking of hiring you too type for me lol

 

[onarock]

Greg, I would agree that there are alot of sulcata keepers here on TFO and they just might be the most represented tortoise on the forum. I also think that they are overly represented when it comes to sickness.

You started out with sulcatas? I just figured you were born the ALDABRAMAN.

Could it be that the majority of members have sulcatas on the forum is why this section is most popular with problems, etc. I think alot of first time new keepers get a sulcata, I know I did. They are very available and not exspensive for the first timer. Also, each species is so unique, hard to classify sysptoms as overall. Just a perspective.

---

John, well put. I especially liked this part. "their is no living thing that is "bulletproof"every animal has its level of required care and i'm sure the experts will agree (atleast the honest ones)that even with that stuff sometimes happens.what concerns me about this statement is that anyone can read it without being a member here and some who may have a sick tort may be too embarrassed too ask for help thinking they failed in keeping a "bulletproof" animal healthy,i wonder, can an irressponsible statement be as damageing too a tort as the wrong information or lack there of? alot of newbie's too the forum are children or people who have never owned a reptile before so in my opinion people who are regarded as experts here should take that into account when posting publically."

Respiratory infections aren't too common with sulcatas. Really outside of pyramiding from being too dry and MBD from a total lack of UV, they are pretty bulletproof, unless someone gets one of those chronically dehydrated babies that I addressed here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hatchling-Failure-Syndrome#axzz1FxQR4RJi

Well I guess the coil bulb and the eye thing is a potential problem too.

I guess I'm saying that outside of a few common pitfalls (too cool, no UV, coil bulbs, poor diet, or HFS), they just don't get sick very often. Maybe addressing these things is what you had in mind?

i have too disagree here,again i'm no expert,but my statements are based on things i have actually seen for myself,that being obviously sick animals being sold at shows and person after person coming too this forum with the first post of my sulcata is sick.their is no living thing that is "bulletproof"every animal has its level of required care and i'm sure the experts will agree (atleast the honest ones)that even with that stuff sometimes happens.what concerns me about this statement is that anyone can read it without being a member here and some who may have a sick tort may be too embarrassed too ask for help thinking they failed in keeping a "bulletproof" animal healthy,i wonder, can an irressponsible statement be as damageing too a tort as the wrong information or lack there of? alot of newbie's too the forum are children or people who have never owned a reptile before so in my opinion people who are regarded as experts here should take that into account when posting publically.again these are just my opinions and i am not trying too attack anyone i just felt it needed too be said maybe i'm wrong i don't know. john

 

[Yvonne G]

excellent response rob.i'm thinking of hiring you too type for me lol

LOL!!! (Actually, you don't seem to need it anymore! You've improved 100% over your first few posts! )

 

[Livingstone]

Hahaha, you guys are too funny.

I also want to come to Tom's defense... Kind of.

It was a bad statement to make, no question about that. However, the guy does an exceptional job of raising his tortoises, thats not a talent everybody shares. For Tom a sulcata may be bulletproof because his natural ability to raise animals is better than most. He understands very clearly what the thresholds are for success and knows how his care affects the animals.

For Tom it may seem that these guys are bulletproof, rather its that he's incapable of screwing it up.

Tom just delete the post and call it a day.

 

[onarock]

Nobody is questioning Tom's ability to raise tortoises, just his judgement. Let me just say that I think any tortoise would be lucky to end up in Tom's care. That being said, the comment was not appropriate especially from Tom. The reasons being are that Tom has a reputation of like 60 or so and about 15 stars next to his name not to mention his name is in a different color than the rest of us because he is also a forum contributor. Either Tom does'nt reilize the enormous influence that he has on the forum or he just does'nt care. I think that the issues that others have pointed out in regards to that statement are valid and I can name some others, but I won't. I thought we might hear some responce from a forum moderator, but as expected we did'nt

Hahaha, you guys are too funny.

I also want to come to Tom's defense... Kind of.

It was a bad statement to make, no question about that. However, the guy does an exceptional job of raising his tortoises, thats not a talent everybody shares. For Tom a sulcata may be bulletproof because his natural ability to raise animals is better than most. He understands very clearly what the thresholds are for success and knows how his care affects the animals.

For Tom it may seem that these guys are bulletproof, rather its that he's incapable of screwing it up.

Tom just delete the post and call it a day.

 

[Balboa]

I had an idea some time ago:

Create a "Newbie Questionaire" or the like for folks to fill out when in need of help. Get them to answer the usual questions up front to avoid the constant cycle of almost having to beat and badger the answers out of the new keepers that will allow us to help them.

It would even be really slick if it could be set up as an application that will then automatically generate the post. This is of course way beyond my computer expertise, but I'm sure there are members that program.

I ran the idea by Mark, but he echoed the same reservations that were already in my head and I dropped the idea. Nobody would use it, and would go on posting a new thread for every individual. We all know the answers are already there, stickied or not, nobody's ever willing to look for them.

Its a little pessimistic I guess, but there's a reason I spent about a month devouring this forum, reading every thing I could before I ever even joined. I knew the answers to most of my questions would already be there if I bothered looking, and I DIDN'T want to come across as a typical "lazy" Newb.

 

[Angi]

Okay so now I have to give my oppinion on the Tom thing. Bulletproof was just a poor chioce of words. We all know that Tom is a fanatic about raising the perfect tortoise that thrives not survives and has a smooth shell. I think he was simply saying that they don't show sickness very often. Now a newbie may take that wrong. I think the goal here is not to keep tortoises and turtles alive, but have them live long, healthy happy lives. I don't know why I felt the need to respond to this.
Maybe this thread should start over with facts only. I would like to see some info on desert torts. What are common CDT illnesses? And boxies too.

 

[Angi]

Okay so now I have to give my oppinion on the Tom thing. Bulletproof was just a poor chioce of words. We all know that Tom is a fanatic about raising the perfect tortoise that thrives not survives and has a smooth shell. I think he was simply saying that they don't show sickness very often. Now a newbie may take that wrong. I think the goal here is not to keep tortoises and turtles alive, but have them live long, healthy happy lives. I don't know why I felt the need to respond to this.
Maybe this thread should start over with facts only. I would like to see some info on desert torts. What are common CDT illnesses? And boxies too.