the secret policemans other ball (warning graphic picture)

[John]

a) my response was not directed at you kyryah i've read alot of your posts and find you very knowledgeable b) i don't assume people don't know what their talking about i make that detrmination by what they post.c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival,as far as eggs since were pulling that from the sky,yes some eat eggs,which by the way is not technically dead,others eat birds,worms,fish,none that i know of seek out dead prey,and i have witnessed my captives kill a food item and loose interest no matter how long that food lays there it will not eat it,put another live one in and whack and devour,have i witnessed a snake starve too death in the wild for lack of live prey,rediculous question.do i think i know more about snakes than chad and chikat absolutely.

 

[ChiKat]

do i think i know more about snakes than chad and chikat absolutely.

haha well you're right about that part at least! I know next to nothing about snakes.
I do know, however, that feeding f/t is more humane to the snake AND rodent.

 

[John]

never really said or meant too say either,simply snakes prey on live animals thats what they do, frozen rat was not born frozen sombody killed it,i choose too keep snakes and i choose too feed live,i really don't need anyones approval.and for the record i am being humane in not tellin you how i feel about rodents,because you posted your pics and do care for them.too be honest i never really wanted too debate this

 

[ChiKat]

I appreciate that, thanks! I know you didn't intend for a debate in this thread, but I can't help but comment when I believe an animal is being treated inhumanely. Sorry it went off-topic!

 

[bettinge]

I can't believe someone actually posted a picture of some LARGE man eating ground cow in a bun.....disgusting!
He should have had a shirt on.

 

[John]

finally a lite,i think i may have just laughed. thank you scott

 

[chadk]

,have i witnessed a snake starve too death in the wild for lack of live prey,rediculous question..

Clearly then the answer is an obvious "no".

If i don't have first had knowledge on a subject i will not comment on it or offer advice,or judgement on someone else's practices

Yet you claimed this:

most snakes would starve too death before the ate a non wiggling dead animal in the wild

Yep, very rediculous...


(oh, and most folks have no issue warming up the dead rat and wiggling it around a bit if needed to get the snake interested - it isn't that hard.)

 

[Floof]

c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival

I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...

An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.

Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.

If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.

*Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton! I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*

 

[stells]

I'm just going to comment on the original post...

Great picture

 

[onarock]

c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival

I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...

An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.

Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.

If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.

*Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton! I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*

I think squamata was writing that not all snakes will eat F/T mice or rats. I would agree. I used to work for a large breeder in So Cal many years ago. We bred almost every non venomous snake you can think of. We had day old to long term captive W.C. adults and some would not eat freshly killed or F/t mice or rats both W.C. and Captive bred. There are even snake theories that say Lazy feeders (f/t) make Lazy breeders.

 

[John]

c) it is common knowledge that feeding dead prey is a conditioning all snakes don't do it readily some never do,as far as snake motivation there is only one thing that motivates a snake survival

I have to laugh at this one. There are a great many snakes who will readily accept frozen/thaw prey as their very first meal out of the egg. No conditioning involved. I had this experience--in the one clutch of corn snakes I've hatched, ONE out of 10 snakes refused to take dead prey from the start. In other words, from the moment they hatched, 9 of those snakes recognized that dead things made viable prey. Their acceptance of f/t in my care had absolutely nothing to do with "conditioning." As for the other one, all it took was a single live feeding that caused the snake to begin recognizing rodents as prey... Again, no "conditioning" involved, as, once it recognized that pinky mice were food, it was happy to take pre-killed prey without hesitation or any need for trickery ("tease feeding" included). In addition to my own experience, I know of a great many snake breeders who are able to successfully start hatchlings and neonates on frozen thaw prey with no "conditioning" or initial live feedings involved. So, there goes the conditioning argument...

An animal with good survival instinct is going to eat whatever is available and edible--even if it's dead. If a snake goes months without food and comes across a pre-killed prey item, guaranteed easy food, it's not going to ignore that free food just because it's not moving; it's going to eat its fill while it has the chance, because it knows better than to starve to death just because it can't find anything that's still squirming and biting. Same with any other predator... Even if fresh meat is "better" and a live prey more "thrilling," no wild predator in its right mind will pass up a free meal if it stumbles across a dead animal.

Another thing to think about... If a snake will sooner starve to death than take pre-killed prey, how is it that so many people have whole collections of literally hundreds of snakes feeding on frozen/thaw? By your logic, all those snakes should have died a long time ago, or never even been born, considering how many of those same snakes' ancestors have survived, thrived, and even bred while only being given pre-killed prey.

If you choose to feed live, whatever, that's your choice... But don't start making things up willy-nilly to make yourself look better.

*Disclaimer: I apologize if something in this post is worded poorly or sounds off. I'm ill and it can be hard to focus on choosing all the right words when the right side of your head feels like a great big ball of cotton! I hope I've made my point without confusing too many people... Now excuse me as I track down some cold medicine and take a nice nap!*

it appears you disagree with people i find too be very knowledgeable on the subject maybe you should write a bunch of books and maybe n.e.r.d will notice you,and take back all they have pulished and change there ways.and i quote"with a little patience it is fairly easy too condition the ball python to accept and eat pre-killed or frzen/thawed prey items" kevin mccurley.just happen too be rereading kevin's book.i can scan my library for you if u need more examples

---

News flash... when you have a snake in CAPTIVITY it is no longer IN THE WILD.... Just some food for tought

PS - have you actually witnessed a snake in the wild actually choose to starve to death rather than eat a previously killed prey item? I wonder what motivates some snakes to eat eggs?

whats the incinuation here in regards too egg eating snakes are you suggesting they feel sorry for rodents soo they eat eggs.maybe they hang out in burrows singing john lennen songs and drawing peta banners,is that it?

 

[Marty333]

Nice snake!!! Really pretty!!! IMO its like us eating steak except without the fur. I really don't find it disgusting but if people are offended then i guess a warning would be nice. But really a snake eating makes people that mad its not even bloody. Just my thought.

 

[TKCARDANDCOIN]

Oh, by the way, I love your Ball Python.

 

[pdrobber]

nice, I've wanted a ball python but apparently all snakes in the python family are illegal in NYC...so I'll stick with my corn snake. we're still on pinkies but I'm thinking we'll be starting with double/larger ones/fuzzies soon.

 

[gummybearpoop]

Wow this thread is crazy.

I don't understand how snakes eating live mice is inhumane though. Perhaps, some dog food/cat food company will make snake food chow in pellet form because it is more humane. Though, I do understand that people don't like to view animals being eaten, but we all take a chance when we open up that thread/email that says "Warning!" or "Graphic Picture". I know I regretted doing that at work!

But ewww another Ball Python! haha just kiddin