Sulcata Sad Mystery

[Lex]

First off, Hi, I'm new to the forum, sort of, I have been here a long time reading but never had a voice because I didn't need one thus far, but unfortunately I do now. I ordered 2 beautiful baby sulcatas from a popular reptile website that I was very pleased with. They were bright eyed and active upon arrival a week and a half ago, sadly they both died these past few days. I know what you're thinking, this is some n00b with no experience with animals, quite the contrary though, I have a lot of experience and I also have 2 other sulcata hatchlings (around 4 months older) that are still doing fine. Heres the set up: 40 gallon breeder kept outside on warm days (so here in MS there are quite a few of those) they are kept on peat sphagnum moss mixed with topsoil for substrate. They have a shallow tupperware lid water dish, and a plant saucer food dish. also a warm hide and a humid hide. The substrate is kept moist but not wet and when they are inside (which is currently) they are kept under a mercury vapor bulb with the other half of the cage covered with a hot wet towel to lock in humidity (not the whole tank though, the area around the light and a couple inches from that is left open to allow proper ventilation). Their diet is alternated weekly between spring mix and collard greens as the staple. They are offered soaked mazuri with shredded carrots and a herpivite and calcium powder mixed in every 4th feeding or so. I also give them hibiscus flowers and leaves, picked grass, dandelions, mallow plant, and all the other good weeds from the pesticide free yard daily. And last but not least they're soaked in warm water for 15 to 20 minutes every night. Basically I do everything tom says to do. Sadly though these babies came in and were asymptomatic then literally over night (on like the 2nd night) the first one died with its only symptom being its plastron sucked in at the "belly button" area, and the plastron was still hard too. A few days later the other one died the same way, suddenly with that as its only symptom. So please help me figure out what this could be and how to prevent it. I've never experienced anything like it before.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Lex...so sorry to have to "welcome" you to the Forum under such sad circumstances.

I don't think any of us would be able to really know for sure why your babies died. My GUESS is that they were kept too dry before you got them. But that's purely a guess.

Interesting that the plastron seemed sucked in. That should be a pretty good telling point for an experienced tortoise vet to be able to give a more educated guess.

You probably have recourse to get your money back. Did you take pictures?

 

[Lancecham]

As Yvonne stated, it will be hard to figure out what happened.
Were they shipped and packed properly? Were the temperatures during the shipping process too cold or too warm?

 

[wellington]

So sorry for your loss. Welcome to the forum. Can you tell us what your temps and humidity levels were? Also, a glass aquarium outside would act like a green house if not properly shaded. The sides are high on aquariums and would hold heat in very well. Also, if your temps are high as per Toms threads, but the humidity is not high enough, that would not be good either. Just a couple ideas of what may have happened. Also, as already stated, possibly something before you got them.

 

[AZtortMom]

I am so sorry for your loss

 

[ascott]

I would venture to bet it had something to do with shipping process....since you mention their "sucked" in shell....I am so sorry to hear this.

 

[Lex]

I got in touch with the company, they do not believe in soaking their tortoises, they even kept them on sand, and blamed their deaths on my keeping them "too wet" so the mystery is solved I guess, had I known this I would have never ordered from them. I still feel awful though. As for the question about the green house effect when they are outside they are kept under the porch (open topped) to keep from overheating but still getting the good uvb rays. While we are on the topic of poorly kept hatchlings, my remaining sulcata hatchling was ever so slightly pyramided when I received him, (obviously he also came from the "jerky maker" setup) which earned him the name "Giza". He eats like a horse and romps around his tank, though. I am concerned for him that his plastron has never been rock solid either, I especially notice it after he is soaked. I really want him to thrive and grow into a big, healthy tortoise. How long does it take until I start to see the results? I have had him for about 4 months now, (he has grown significantly since receiving him too), I just want one sulcata success story. I love these animals and have had no luck despite my best efforts

 

[Yvonne G]

I used to have a paper that Ron Tremper wrote (a noted tortoise person) about baby desert tortoises and sand impaction. He even included radiographs of the impacted babies.

Yes, the mystery is solved, but it wasn't due to your keeping them the "wet" method. I'd be willing to bet the babies died from being sand impacted.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Absolutely agree. Sand did it. Shame that the people who sold you these babies are not using simple common sense about their care. You duplicate what is safe. In captive care, we should go above and beyond when possible. Using sand on delicate babies ain't it. Shame.On.Them.

I am so sorry this happened. : (

 

[weijiaj]

I feel so sorry about your lost....

 

[wellington]

At four months your babies shell/plastron should be hard by now. They do still have a little give. The natural sun should help. Just make sure it's not going through the glass, UVB won't go through glass.
You should also ask those people you bought the babies from to please read up on the information on this forum. Let them know, they don't have to join to get all the up to date information on the proper raising of sulcatas. Let them know, that new ways have been found, tested and are growing much healthier and smooth sulcatas.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Excellent suggestion! Horse to water ... let's hope they drink!

 

[Lex]

I will definitely try to tell them to read up and get better information on how to properly keep their babies. That is why I am concerned, I hope it is not too late for him too, he's always bright eyed and eats everything I give him. When he's outside I take the top off the tank in the day to ensure that the uvb reaches him properly. I guess only time will tell, he's a strong headed little boy though, so I know he has the will to leave and I am going to do everything I can to help him.

 

[wellington]

All you can do is to do things the right way by him, cross fingers and hope for the best. Sounds like he is getting the best chance with you now, so hopefully it will work out for him. Many here are hoping the same for you and your little one. Keep us posted.