Sulcata avoiding one leg

[MikeZ]

Hello all,

I am a new member and purchased a 55lb Sulcata last October. I live in New Jersey, so he has been inside since then.

He has been strong and active, but starting two weeks ago he started avoiding his left foreleg. He will just drag it along while he walks. I have no idea how he could have injured it. I took him to a reptile vet who took Xrays. These revealed no infection, broken bones, or tumors. His leg definitely causes him some pain. I can squeeze the right one, but he really gets angry when I try to squeeze the left. This seems to start suddenly and hasn't changed or approved in two weeks.

Another concern is that he lost 5lbs in the last four months. Is this normal for indoors in the winter?

He always has food, but eats occasionally. Poops about 1-2 times/day.

Habitat: a wooden pen or crawling around my apartment. Heat/UVB light that makes 80-90deg, rest of the area about 70deg. Pen substrate is aspen.

Food: Bermuda, Orchard, and Timothy Hay. 10% commercial tortoise food. Occasional cabbage, carrot, apple snacks.

Soaking 1-2 times/week.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but the question just begs to be asked:

What were you thinking?

You live in an apartment in New Jersey and you buy a 55lb animal that should live outside?

Most people who have to keep their large tortoises in because of weather have either a heated shed, a heated basement or a whole room devoted to the tortoise.

Your tortoise probably was trying to climb out of the box and slid down, injuring his leg. More than likely it is a temporary injury and will clear up on its own.

I think your bigger problem is trying to keep weight on a large animal that should be outside in the sun. Normally they will graze and walk, graze and walk...eating as much as they can and getting lots of exercise while doing it. Even though we say that grasses and weeds are the best diet for a sulcata, I don't think your diet of the different grass hay is enough for him. Try giving him some veggies like zucchini, yellow squash, dark, leafy greens like turnip greens, etc.

He needs to be able to get his core temperature up above 85 degrees in order to digest his food. The temp you quoted isn't warm enough. Do you use the UV light? The temp under the light should be 105 to 115 degrees with it slightly cooling away from directly under the light, and the opposite side of the habitat shouldn't get below 75 degrees.

In my opinion, your habitat isn't big enough for such a large animal. And he shouldn't be allowed to roam the apartment. There are many things he might eat by mistake and would cause him great harm. Besides, its too cold on the floor of your apartment for a cold-blooded animal.

So, in my opinion, you should make him a bigger habitat or give him a whole room, up the temperature and feed him greens along with the hay.

to the forum!!

 

[kbaker]

Hello all,

I am a new member and purchased a 55lb Sulcata last October. I live in New Jersey, so he has been inside since then.

Habitat: a wooden pen or crawling around my apartment. Heat/UVB light that makes 80-90deg, rest of the area about 70deg. Pen substrate is aspen.

I will try to be nice, but why did you buy a 55lb Sulcata while you are in an apartment??? Please say you are going to be in a house this spring

I can't say specifically what is wrong with his leg, but some hints on how he may have gotten this way...

"80-90deg" You should aim for 10-20 degrees warmer if not warmer. This is not good for all winter in cold New Jersey. I am guessing you need a larger heated area, too. A single bulb on a large tortoise does not cut it.

"rest of the area about 70deg" This might be good for a period of time at night if he had access to an 85F+ sunny day everyday. So you are way off on this, too.

Look for Aspen splinters in his leg.

Maybe someone can join in and help...and be nice, too.

 

[MikeZ]

I should have mentioned that the "pen" is a plywood area in an unfunished basement and is a good 50 square feet. I have a huge backyard where he will roam throughout the warmer months. Good points on the temperatures though. I will see if I can up the ambient heat and the basking spot heat.

 

[kbaker]

I should have mentioned that the "pen" is a plywood area in an unfunished basement and is a good 50 square feet. I have a huge backyard where he will roam throughout the warmer months. Good points on the temperatures though. I will see if I can up the ambient heat and the basking spot heat.

"unfunished basement and is a good 50 square feet"

This tells me it's colder than you think. If the tortoise is roaming the floor of the basement, all it's heat is being sucked out of it. Find a way to "insulate" him from the floor. There is no real way to get the ambient temp up unless you crank your furance. And this will make it too hot upstairs and very dry in the apartment. Can you find a large enclosure you can heat so he can walk in and out at his leisure?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Sorry Mike, I have to say I agree with what has been said so far. I have an 80 pound Sulcata who lives by himself in a heated insulated storage shed that has been redone inside to make it perfect for a large tortoise. It's not good to keep a large Sulcata in a Northern climate. I live in the Pacific North West and got Bob when I lived in California. I keep saying I need to send him back to live in California with my sister but so far i can't let him go. Anyhow, some place on this forum there's picture of Bob's shed and pen. In the wild these guys walk and eat walk and eat and if you cant replicate that in captivity we shouldn't have them. I have done my best to set Bob up great for the winter. He has a doggie door that I open everyday for him. But it's consistently in the high 30's and low 40's and rains everyday here. People in Oregon don't tan they rust. And it's just not fair to the tortoises.
You need to increase your temps. They need to be 80 degrees or better to be able to metabolize their food, so the basking spot needs to be around 100 degrees.
Bob also has toys to play with and to stimulate his mind. They can't just hang around under the basking lamp all day. He has a bucket he hates and smashes, and a soccer ball he kicks and chases. I try to think of ways to keep him active for part of the day. But it's just not good to have large tortoise in a part of the country that's so cold...oh...and ...welcome to the forum...we'll certainly will tell you how it is!
You also need to change his diet to something he'll actually eat. He's losing weight because you aren't feeding him enough. I feed Bob a whole pile of food, I get the trimmings from the produce section of a small grocery store, plus he has a large pile of locally grown grass hay. He eats and sleeps in a large pile of hay. It has taken a while to figure it out but I finally know how much to feed. I feed so that there none left and yet he had enough to eat so he never begs for food..

Here's a link to a care sheet that I think is the best one around...

http://africantortoise.com/

 

[dmmj]

maybe we should start a tortoise soccer team?

 

[MikeZ]

Thanks for the all tough love. It's good advice. I've put in a space heater to increase the ambient temperature 24/7 and lowered the basking bulb.

The pen I built is all plywood. He spends a good amount of time trying to dig through it, basically making scraping and digging motions against it. I can hear it two rooms away. Do you think this is what could have injured his leg?

Does anyone have experience with a tort that had an injured or lame leg? Any idea how long it might take to heal?

He was outdoors in the Fall and definitely very happy. Did not stop wandering and eating all day long in the sun.

Question on the basking lamp... I used to have it lower, but he would sit right underneath it and the top of his head would get dry and the skin would peel. So I raised it a bit. Is the dry, peeling skin a problem? Should I mist or anoint his head?

My backyard is 5000 sq ft. I definitely plan on putting together a heated shed for next winter.

Thanks, Mike

 

[kbaker]

Thanks for the all tough love. It's good advice. I've put in a space heater to increase the ambient temperature 24/7 and lowered the basking bulb.

The pen I built is all plywood. He spends a good amount of time trying to dig through it, basically making scraping and digging motions against it. I can hear it two rooms away. Do you think this is what could have injured his leg?

Does anyone have experience with a tort that had an injured or lame leg? Any idea how long it might take to heal?

He was outdoors in the Fall and definitely very happy. Did not stop wandering and eating all day long in the sun.

Question on the basking lamp... I used to have it lower, but he would sit right underneath it and the top of his head would get dry and the skin would peel. So I raised it a bit. Is the dry, peeling skin a problem? Should I mist or anoint his head?

My backyard is 5000 sq ft. I definitely plan on putting together a heated shed for next winter.

Thanks, Mike

I have not had a tortoise with a leg injury, but nothing will heal well if he does not have the proper temps.

As for moving the bulb, that is not the answer as you have found out. You need multiple bulbs to warm the over all tortoise. You can not move it closer and heat a small spot. He will burn.

 

[Tom]

You need to get a thermometer with a remote probe and measure the basking temp at a rock or brick that is the same height as your tort. The handheld infared ones are the easiest to use for this purpose but any thing will do. Leave the brick/rock under there for a good hour or more and measure at the brightest hottest spot. I like it to be 110-120 at that height. You might also consider a Kane heat mat or something similar to keep the cold ground from sucking the heat out of him. LLL Reptile can ship you your thermometer and heat mat. I've used them for years and really like them. There are plenty of others too.

As Kbaker has been telling you, one bulb/fixture isn't going to do it. I'd recommend at least two fixtures with 160watt FLOODLIGHT type bulbs. These will spread the heat out more and have less risk of a burning hot spot. Get the "Active UV heat" type of one brand or another. At night you need to switch to Ceramic Heating Elements. These will give him the necessary darkness he needs, but the real benefit is the way they produce heat. They create long wave radiation (as opposed to the short wave coming out of incandescent light bulbs of any color) which penetrates deeper into the body. Well that's what the package says, anyway. My experiences with these seems to confirm it.

It does seem to me that his dissatisfaction with the environment you created is the cause of his injury. It seems to me, that if you don't fix the problem (drastically change said environment) and give him the necessary conditions to heal (get those temps up and improve the diet), he will continue to drop weight, not heal and fall below a point of no return. That is a significant amount weight loss in a fairly short period of time.

Please keep us posted. Our goal is to help you and your tort, not to make you feel bad about your decision.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

On my Trex box it tells me to have the 100 watt flood basking bulb 12 inches away from the torts carapace and the 160 watt flood 18 inches away and the 275 watt flood 24 inches away...I think dry flakes are just what happens to an outside tortoise who is kept in too dry conditions. I run a vaporizer for Bob and Queenie a couple of times a month...Bob never has dry skin but I really don't know if it's the vaporizer that's preventing it or what...but your bulb needs to be a specific watt and distance away from your torts in certain given conditions...

Mostly the digging against the plywood is instinct. He is going to bed and he's 'arranging' his dirt. Bob does it too, at night as he goes to bed. During the day he sometimes would protest against being kept inside and he'd spend the day ramming against the doors and digging and scraping against the walls. When I leave his doggie door open and he has the opportunity to go outside and see what the weather is he then comes back in after he see's it's cold and raining and he's satisfied to stay in but he needs to go out and see what the weather is first...he needs to make the decision on his own...HTH

 

[Tom]

On my Trex box it tells me to have the 100 watt flood basking bulb 12 inches away from the torts carapace and the 160 watt flood 18 inches away and the 275 watt flood 24 inches away...I think dry flakes are just what happens to an outside tortoise who is kept in too dry conditions. I run a vaporizer for Bob and Queenie a couple of times a month...Bob never has dry skin but I really don't know if it's the vaporizer that's preventing it or what...but your bulb needs to be a specific watt and distance away from your torts in certain given conditions...

Maggie, I think the guidelines on the box are a good starting point, but should not be substituted for actually checking the temps in the actual environment.

Also, (not directed at Maggie) it should be noted that there is a HUGE difference between SPOT bulbs and FLOOD bulbs. People really need to pay attention to that detail.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I believe I was talking about flood lights and used the word flood lights.