Sluggish baby tortoise

[Vanessa2629]

My sister's girlfriend bought her a baby leopard tortoise for Christmas a few days ago. The day she brought him home he was very active an alert but the next day he was sluggish and not eating much, but he IS eating. (We actually don't know the sex I just defaulted to 'he').

He has a heat lamp but he continues to go to the other side of the enclosure where the heat lamp isnt placed and buries himself in the timothy hay.

We have him in a 2x4 plastic container (I washed it out before setting it up to make sure it was clean), the kind you would store clothes or gift wrapping paper in. It's only a few inches deep. His substrate is coconut fiber and timothy hay. It's next to the window so he gets the sunlight every day but should we get a UV bulb for him anyway? If so, what kind/wattage?

He's soaked for 20 minutes daily in warm water and he's given a calcium supplement with his food. I'm just concerned about his lack of activity. When picked up he is responsive and his eyes are clear but he's just very very sluggish. Is he too cold? I've read that soaking him in a mix of baby food (carrots or squash) and warm water also helps, should we try that?

He's fed a mix of spring mix, kale, collard greens, and lettuce. We've kept tortoises before but never this young. He's only maybe a bit shy of two inches long. Aside from his lack of activity, he isn't showing any signs of being sick but I don't want anything to happen to him.

[The picture I included was the day he was brought home, it's not what he's kept in right now]

 

[Jimb]

Kinda sounds like he's trying to hybernate. You mention a Heat lamp but is there a UVB lamp as well? Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in here pretty soon.

 

[Jodie]

What are the temps in basking area, warm side, cool side and night low. It takes awhile for them to feel safe. Hides and plants help. Hay is not a good substrate. It will mold. Just Coir is all I use. Sometimes sphagnum moss in the hot areas. You will need to cover the enclosure. Leopards require hot and humid. Yes he needs UVB. The window blocks it.
Check out the care guide in the leopard section. It will tell you exactly how to set this baby up, so he grows healthy and smooth.
Welcome to the forum.
As long as he is eating baby food soaks won't help.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, Vanessa, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and your gorgeous baby leopard.
It is quite usual for a tortoise to be active and eat a lot on its first day in a new home and then hide and not eat much.
No one seems to know why the first day is fine, but the later response is because they take a while to adjust to their new enclosures, they are prey animals and are worried that they may be encroaching on another torts territory. he also doesn't know that you are not going to eat him!
He will adjust and settle in if you get your set up right, become more active and eat and see you as the food god, not a threat.
It's too early to know the sex.
It's going to be necessary to get a bigger and deeper enclosure before long. 4 foot by 8 foot is a good idea for a minimum when he's a little bigger.
Glass filters out most of the UVB, so unless the windows are open with the sun shining onto him, it won't be of use.
Use an MVB (mercury vapour bulb) that provides heat light and UVB (I do) or a strip/tube uvb with a separate basking bulb. You may need a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) connected to a thermostat to control your night time temps. It provides heat but no light, as torts need darkness to sleep.
Try the following links for more useful info.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
and also the foods below, especially the ones in bold print.
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm

 

[Vanessa2629]

Thank you all for the detailed and quick responses! We're going to get him a UVB lamp as well as a CHE (for night time) today. My sister doesnt like to keep it above 76 in the apartment and she hasn't been running his heat lamp all night, I'm worried he might not be staying warm enough.

Hopefully with both of those additions, he'll be back to running around again in a few days!

Also we make sure the timothy hay stayed in a separate part of his box to make sure it doesn't get wet and keep a close eye on it. He really does seem to like it so I don't want to take it out if I don't have to.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

You'll need a digital thermometer and a hygrometer to measure your temps and humidity.
Check your care sheets to see what they should be.

 

[dmmj]

you need an accurate temperature reading in the enclosure not the apartment. basking temperature overall cool side warm side. it sounds temperature related to me could be too cold or too hot.

 

[Vanessa2629]

I've sent my sister all the links to read up on while she's at work. The tortoises she's kept in the past have all be arid climate breeds (a russian and two sulcuta) and much much older along with a yard they were able to roam around in and a garden to chomp their way through. Now that we're in an apartment, space is limited which is why the others were re-homed, but if she's not willing to help me set up a proper home for this little guy, Christmas gift or not, I'll be taking him back to where he was purchased. He shouldn't have to suffer just because she doesn't have the time to spend maintaining a proper home for him.

I really wish her girlfriend would have spoken to me before getting this little guy for her because she doesn't know a single thing about tortoises and the deciding factor on leopard was the size, so no research was done at all. Fortunately I've taken the time to read up as much as I can and get some advice to see what he needs! Hopefully she's willing to take the time to set up everything for him, but if she decides this breed is just a bit too much work (I unfortunately don't have the funds to spend on building him a leopard dream home myself), he's definitely going back.

 

[Yvonne G]

You baby leopard tortoise needs to be kept at 80F or above all the time. He's going to die if you continue to keep him in the 70's. Please read the care sheet pinned at the top of our leopard tortoise section. We have new info and keeping them on hay and dry is old and wrong.

 

[Vanessa2629]

I'm back with a few more questions!

I don't know the first thing about building, well, anything really but much less a tortoise box so I've been looking at some sites that sell them and I was wondering what the opinion would be on this one here: http://www.petandtortoiseworld.co.uk/store/p70/The_Nook.html

I know it's not any bigger than what we have him in now but I don't think he'll outgrow it in the next six months? In August of next year my sister is moving up north and will have a house again and be able to build him something much bigger.

On that topic, is there any advice on how to transport a tortoise that young with the least amount of stress for him?

I've also taken all the hay out of his box and he's got his sunlight lamp, heat lamp, and nighttime heat lamp now.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I'm back with a few more questions!

I don't know the first thing about building, well, anything really but much less a tortoise box so I've been looking at some sites that sell them and I was wondering what the opinion would be on this one here: http://www.petandtortoiseworld.co.uk/store/p70/The_Nook.html

I know it's not any bigger than what we have him in now but I don't think he'll outgrow it in the next six months? In August of next year my sister is moving up north and will have a house again and be able to build him something much bigger.

On that topic, is there any advice on how to transport a tortoise that young with the least amount of stress for him?

I've also taken all the hay out of his box and he's got his sunlight lamp, heat lamp, and nighttime heat lamp now.

Seems like an awful lot of money for nothing much to me.
Buy a bookcase, knock out the shelves, lay it flat, line it with a shower curtain and add your substrate. buried half plant pots do fine as hides, cheap, shallow terracotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate for water and a piece of slate or sandstone to put the food on. Couldn't be simpler, even for me with no DIY ability whatsoever. Bigger is always better, whatever the age, as much as you can manage for now.
Travelling stresses tortoises, no getting away from it, but they soon get over it. He'll poop and pee, so plenty of absorbent paper will be required. use a small dark box.
have a look at http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/we-are-moving-best-way-to-transport-2-tortoises.34753/
And wahaayyy for the lamps!
What type of UVB are you using ?

 

[Tom]

Open tortoise tables are not a good way to house baby leopards. You need a large closed chamber.

 

[leigti]

If in a large Rubbermaid bin would work for a while. They have 54 gallon totes at Home Depot. Just cut holes in the lid big enough for the lights and CHEto go through. It will help keep the heat and humidity in.

 

[Vanessa2629]

Seems like an awful lot of money for nothing much to me.
Buy a bookcase, knock out the shelves, lay it flat, line it with a shower curtain and add your substrate. buried half plant pots do fine as hides, cheap, shallow terracotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate for water and a piece of slate or sandstone to put the food on. Couldn't be simpler, even for me with no DIY ability whatsoever. Bigger is always better, whatever the age, as much as you can manage for now.
Travelling stresses tortoises, no getting away from it, but they soon get over it. He'll poop and pee, so plenty of absorbent paper will be required. use a small dark box.
have a look at http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/we-are-moving-best-way-to-transport-2-tortoises.34753/
And wahaayyy for the lamps!
What type of UVB are you using ?

She bought a powersun 100w mercury vapor bulb, so that's what he has during the day. And then a nocturnal heat lamp at night.
Sorry for the late reply, busy holidays!

The rubbermaid bin sounds like a good idea for now! I'll look into that after Christmas. Right now I've just been misting his substrate a few times a day and still bathing him in warm water for 20 minutes before I feed him (he may still be a bit sluggish walking around but he is a very exuberant eater).
Whats the best way to keep the substrate moist in an enclosed box?

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

She bought a powersun 100w mercury vapor bulb, so that's what he has during the day. And then a nocturnal heat lamp at night.
Sorry for the late reply, busy holidays!

The rubbermaid bin sounds like a good idea for now! I'll look into that after Christmas. Right now I've just been misting his substrate a few times a day and still bathing him in warm water for 20 minutes before I feed him (he may still be a bit sluggish walking around but he is a very exuberant eater).
Whats the best way to keep the substrate moist in an enclosed box?

I just pour water in at the corners and mix it all up with my coco coir by hand. A large water bowl and a few spider plants seem to help with my humidity.