Russian Tort stopped eating greens

[Oscartherussiantortoise]

Hello,

13 months ago we purchased a “19 year old” Russian tortoise from a local reptile pet store. He has been a really good and enthusiastic eater. About a week ago he stopped eating. The temp in his enclosure is around 85-90 in the basking area. Afraid the UVB might be waning, we replaced the bulb a week ago. He acts the same, still sassy and lethargy is not noticeable. His eyes and nose are clear, and we don’t see any signs of trouble with his shell/body. The day he stopped eating, we introduced curly mustard as the store was out of his favorite dandelion. For the last two days, we have been doing twice daily baby food soaks. Still no luck with eating. He will check out his food dish but walk away. During his soaks, he is voiding but a much smaller volume obviously. Today, I came across a dandelion flower outside and knowing this was a favorite of his, gave it to him. He ate it. We are in Michigan and everything is going dormant but we happened to find two more small dandelion flowers and he ate those too. But even after finding and offering the dandelion greens, he still refuses them. I do have an appointment with a reptile vet this Tuesday but am weary based on other posts about vets not necessarily knowing about Russian tortoises (this vet said they had experience though). Any thoughts on why he will suddenly not eat his greens but will eat the dandelion flower (which we scoured our acreage and could not find anymore)?

 

[Tom]

Hello,

13 months ago we purchased a “19 year old” Russian tortoise from a local reptile pet store. He has been a really good and enthusiastic eater. About a week ago he stopped eating. The temp in his enclosure is around 85-90 in the basking area. Afraid the UVB might be waning, we replaced the bulb a week ago. He acts the same, still sassy and lethargy is not noticeable. His eyes and nose are clear, and we don’t see any signs of trouble with his shell/body. The day he stopped eating, we introduced curly mustard as the store was out of his favorite dandelion. For the last two days, we have been doing twice daily baby food soaks. Still no luck with eating. He will check out his food dish but walk away. During his soaks, he is voiding but a much smaller volume obviously. Today, I came across a dandelion flower outside and knowing this was a favorite of his, gave it to him. He ate it. We are in Michigan and everything is going dormant but we happened to find two more small dandelion flowers and he ate those too. But even after finding and offering the dandelion greens, he still refuses them. I do have an appointment with a reptile vet this Tuesday but am weary based on other posts about vets not necessarily knowing about Russian tortoises (this vet said they had experience though). Any thoughts on why he will suddenly not eat his greens but will eat the dandelion flower (which we scoured our acreage and could not find anymore)?

Hello and welcome.

Its winter. He knows he should be brumating right now.

What type of UV bulb are you using?
Is there any ambient lighting, like LEDs?
How cold does the enclosure get over night?
How long is the UV bulb on each day? Basking lamp?
Can you post a picture or two of the enclosure?

It should be 95-100 directly under the heat lamp.

 

[Oscartherussiantortoise]

Hello and welcome.

Its winter. He knows he should be brumating right now.

What type of UV bulb are you using?
Is there any ambient lighting, like LEDs?
How cold does the enclosure get over night?
How long is the UV bulb on each day? Basking lamp?
Can you post a picture or two of the enclosure?

It should be 95-100 directly under the heat lamp.

We can double check the temp in the morning. My husband believes I am wrong on the temp. The house temp is 72 (no heat lamp at night because this is what they advised us when we bought him) and we had initially put a rubber mat down on the upper level hideaway to protect the wood but he uses it as a “blanket” instead. He’ll go upstairs at night and go under the mat and then burrow. He basks on the 1st level or on the ramp with the ramp being warmer as it is closer to the lamp. We use a SolarGlo 160w All In One. It’s on a timer for 12 hours on, 12 hours off. He also gets time out of the enclosure daily to exercise and explore the house. This is our first reptile and were wondering if he was trying to brumate and just didn’t last year because of the stress of being in a new environment. If a vet visit is warranted, I am happy to take him as I don’t want to get in an emergency situation during the holidays but does this seem like a vet visit is warranted? I also don’t want to subject him to the stress of traveling to the vet and undergo tests if he is trying to brumate.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
A few small things to start with:
1. How do you measure temperatures and humidity? I don't see any gauges or probes inside the enclosure. You can get a digital thermometer/gygrometer from a hardware store - otherwise you're blind when making any adjustments.
2. He definitely needs a water dish (shallow, non-glazed terracota saucer - again, from a hardware/gardening store). Also, soaking him once or twice a week (more often won't hurt) in a lukewarm water for 20-30 minutes would help with hydration.
3. Ambient light should be provided - a LED strip ("cold white light", 6000-6500K) is fine for that (look for "under cabinet lights" in a hardware store). Lights should be on for 13-14 hours a day.
4. 160W lamp can be an overkill for a small vivarium. Other thing is that mercury vapour bulbs are very drying for tortoise shell and UVB level is not very predictable. Typically a combination of an incandescent flood lamp for heat and light and T5 tube for UVB works best for basking spots (it's safe and adjustable setup). Incandescent lamp is on for 13-14 hours a day, UVB tube - for 3-4 hours.
5. It's correct, that you should not use lamps for night heating (any light-emitting source). But you need a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) with a thermostat set to 75F. With room temperatures of 72F it's somewhat redundant, but you can be sure, that temperatures in the enclosure are correct.
6. Don't let him roam in the house. Never. Please. It's unsafe in many ways even if you closely supervise him.

And now the big thing:
This enclosure is unfortunately too small. He needs at least 4x8 feet. If you have enough space, then using a portable greenhouse is an easy and cheap option. If not - it could be an L-shaped enclosure or two-level. Just don't get a bigger tank from a pet shop - it would be a waste of money (even 120 gallons is too small and costs a little fortune).

 

[TammyJ]

It seems that your tortoise is thinking about brumating, especially with your letting him roam around in your 72 degree house when he should be at a constant higher temperature to prevent brumation?

 

[wellington]

Forget what you were told by the pet store.
Make changes suggested ASAP and you shouldn't need to see a vet. Continue as you are and you will have more problems.
The flood bulb is for basking as the tube uvb doesn't give off much heat. The two being close to each other and he will get enough uvb while basking.
Basking temp should be 95-100
All over day temp 75-80
Night temps 70, no lower then 60's
Brightly lighted during the day to keep him from brumating.
Substrate should be deeper and on all levels.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I have temperate tortoises who also have stopped eating, so what I did/do is to microwave a squash and tempt them with that food all mushed around in produce and weeds...they eat every time...I have also kicked up the ambient temp in the tort shed to 90 degrees...Mary Knobbins takes winter pretty hard, I have to pull her out of her sleeping box and put her right in front of the food otherwise she doesn't eat. She hates winter more than any other tortoise I have kept.

 

[Oscartherussiantortoise]

I have temperate tortoises who also have stopped eating, so what I did/do is to microwave a squash and tempt them with that food all mushed around in produce and weeds...they eat every time...I have also kicked up the ambient temp in the tort shed to 90 degrees...Mary Knobbins takes winter pretty hard, I have to pull her out of her sleeping box and put her right in front of the food otherwise she doesn't eat. She hates winter more than any other tortoise I have kept.

Thank you, Maggie, for your kind response and advice as with all the other advice given. There are many I suspect that like us, see a poor reptile housed in an 18 x 18 cube for months at a pet store and think we are doing something good by giving them a home and do not know that the pet store employees who also own tortoises and reptiles would not give good advice. We will work on the suggested setup issues. To clarify, the picture was when we first put the two story in but does not include everything. His substrate is deep enough now, there is a humidity gage, a water dish, a soaking dish and a slate as well as various rocks for him to walk over. He comes out in my kitchen for about an hour each day and waits at the door for me to bring him out and I get the impression that he enjoys his little walkabout. Since he seemed to be attracted to the yellow dandelion flowers yesterday, I mixed in some yellow bell pepper with his normal greens and he ate everything this morning.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Thank you, Maggie, for your kind response and advice as with all the other advice given. There are many I suspect that like us, see a poor reptile housed in an 18 x 18 cube for months at a pet store and think we are doing something good by giving them a home and do not know that the pet store employees who also own tortoises and reptiles would not give good advice. We will work on the suggested setup issues. To clarify, the picture was when we first put the two story in but does not include everything. His substrate is deep enough now, there is a humidity gage, a water dish, a soaking dish and a slate as well as various rocks for him to walk over. He comes out in my kitchen for about an hour each day and waits at the door for me to bring him out and I get the impression that he enjoys his little walkabout. Since he seemed to be attracted to the yellow dandelion flowers yesterday, I mixed in some yellow bell pepper with his normal greens and he ate everything this morning.

I so appreciate how much you care for Oscar...but please believe me when I tell you that allowing him to roam the kitchen floor is one of the most dangerous things you could do for Oscar. I know you are watching him roam carefully...but picture this story... I will shorten it some...

A newcomer signs in here and adds pictures of a hatchling Sulcata tortoise just a few months old. He tells us he allows that baby to roam the floor in his house, the keeper saying he was always keeping an eye on his baby. But his phone rang so even tho he stays in the same room he's not really watching his baby because of whatever was happening on the fone. The hatchling then did what every tortoise in captivity does...he finds himself a corner...unfortunately, the corner was at the door to the room, and when the keeper reaches out to close the door, his baby was squashed in the door.

I'm pretty hardhearted but even in the telling, I think I hear that hatchling scream. Please get your tort off the floor...AND it's kinda too cold for the tort. In some instances it can make the tort too cold. Anyway...there's my sad story, please pickup Oscar...Merry Christmas

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Yes, he is certainly in the better conditions now than he was in a pet shop. And pet store salesmen sometimes give a bad advice because it's their job to sell stuff, sometimes because outdated information is all they have.

When addressing the husbandry issues - don't hesitate to ask questions.

About free roaming in the kitchen: I'm sure he enjoys the walk. However, floor is usually too cold, there is a lot of wrong things to eat, they hide and stuck behind fridges and radiators, they can be hit by doors, stepped on and such. He needs his own space not shared with human beings. Getting a large and properly set up enclosure is the best solution. However, a pop-up greenhouse or a kiddy pool can work too.