Russian Carapace

[phowlett]

Hi my name is Pete, I'm 44 and I live in Michigan. I've kept turtles since I was 19 and have had pancake tortoises, but mostly Russians as they are cheaper and hardier.
I've noticed one of my male Russian tortoises has developed a sunken area on a spinal scute, 2nd from the bottom. I feed them a diet of romaine(rarely), collard, mustard, turnip, dandelion greens. They were out a couple of cold nights and I'm worried the cold damp nights of michigan may have caused harm to them. He is still active & eating. Any info would be great. Thank You

 

[yuri2012]

Hi my name is Pete, I'm 44 and I live in Michigan. I've kept turtles since I was 19 and have had pancake tortoises, but mostly Russians as they are cheaper and hardier.
I've noticed one of my male Russian tortoises has developed a sunken area on a spinal scute, 2nd from the bottom. I feed them a diet of romaine(rarely), collard, mustard, turnip, dandelion greens. They were out a couple of cold nights and I'm worried the cold damp nights of michigan may have caused harm to them. He is still active & eating. Any info would be great. Thank You

Up-close pictures of these spots would be helpful.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Pete:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Usually a sunken area over the hips means MBD (metabolic bone disease), but you normally see this in sulcatas, not steppe tortoises. Yuri is right, a picture will be more helpful for us.

 

[Kristina]

I have to disagree. I have an adult female Russian that very strongly exhibits the sunken area over the hips that indicates long term MBD. However, I do agree that pictures would be the most helpful.

Welcome to the forum! I am located in Michigan also, and I have a group of 7 Russians. Although it does get a bit damper here than in their natural range, we actually do not get NEAR as cold.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm just curious what you disagreed with, Kristina. I said "normally" that doesn't mean every single time, it just means we usually see it in sulcatas. It occurs in every tortoise, but we normally see it in sulcatas.

I was trying to say that this may not be MBD, we have to see the pictures.

 

[Kristina]

I guess I misinterpreted, I simply meant that I have seen it in Russians (more than just the one that I have currently,) and also Redfoots, Greeks, and I know you have had to have seen it in at least a few DT's over the years. I don't think of it being a condition that affects mostly Sulcatas, with the exception of the fact that Sulcatas are more often kept in poor conditions and probably the most commonly kept tortoise. I believe that it is an expression of MBD that can be seen in any species.

 

[Kerryann]

Welcome fellow michigander
Pics are always good

 

[phowlett]

OK, sorry about no pics, as I am still stuck in the 1900s, no picture phone and no camera. But I will try and get it on here, thanks so much for your help. RT also has a scute that seems to be drawing back, leaving white marks, no discharge. Dry shell rot, treat with iodine? RT is still eating well and is heavy when it comes to weight. All info is welcome, 44 but am just discovering internet and technology in general. Thanks so much guys and I will find some one to get a pic on here.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Pete:

It wouldn't be a good idea for us to give you "treatment" advice without seeing the problem area. It might be any number of things and we might tell you the wrong thing. Wouldn't want to do that.

The space between the scutes is where growth happens. Could you be seeing a wide growth spurt?

Don't feel like the lone ranger. I don't know much about computers either...didn't even have a cell phone until I saw a commercial for one that only costs $10 a month. I DO have a digital camera, though. I'd really be lost without that. I LOVE my camera and I even know how to put the pictures on the computer!! Speaking of my camera, I wonder where it is? I took it outside yesterday to take picture of a bloom on my agave and think I forgot to bring it back inside. I hope its in a protected area.

 

[phowlett]

Shell rot on the bottom, suggestions for that would be great. Vet scheduled for Monday just to be sure. Here are pics.
Scutes 2&3 are concave, like they were furrowed. Spot of shell rot on the top, more concerning are the scutes that seem to be shrinking leaving white areas. Unfortunately on Pet store advice, many bags of Repti-bark were purchased for her to hibernate in. I think this started the shell rot. Advice to feed romaine lettuce also seems to be faulty. This combination + hibernation has caused many of my problems. Can I resolve them? New pen is 6X2, washed play sand and coconut as substrate, UVB lights there is a question(tube or the screw in), hiding spot, pan of water and a rotation of mustard, collard, dandelion, turnip greens and kale. I found liquid calcium, any good?(hard to administer to tort). How many tortoises should go into a 6X2 pen. Thanks so much.

 

[Kerryann]

Hi Pete,
I don't have any experience with shell rot (fingers crossed). How did the vet appointment go? I am in metro Detroit and have a pretty reasonable priced vet who owns a tortoise if you need someone and are local to me.
Typically I have heard Russians don't play well together and I think based on my own Russian i would say at least that is true in my case.
I use coconut substrate with no sand. The sand is hard to keep humid enough.
I use the powder calcium and just sprinkle it on their food. You can also add red and green leaf lettuce to your food varieties offered. I have been feeding my tortoises day lilies, roses, and hibiscus since they are in full bloom here now.

 

[phowlett]

I'm in Saginaw, so not much here. I planned on using washed play sand and coconut, but then I hear about impaction, heard the coconut by itself may promote shell rot(which is coming along nicely. Go Lotrimin), organic soil, aspen bark and so forth. Thought the play sand might pass though as they are soaked daily .
Trying to replicate Southern Russia and Afghanistan with the play sand. I read that it is sandy and arid there, so I'm trying to be as realistic as possible. Suggestions would be sweet. Hey Kerryann, do you hibernate your Russians? Inside or outside? Substrate & depth? It would be good to have a Michigan source. Thanks.

Hi Pete,
I don't have any experience with shell rot (fingers crossed). How did the vet appointment go? I am in metro Detroit and have a pretty reasonable priced vet who owns a tortoise if you need someone and are local to me.
Typically I have heard Russians don't play well together and I think based on my own Russian i would say at least that is true in my case.
I use coconut substrate with no sand. The sand is hard to keep humid enough.
I use the powder calcium and just sprinkle it on their food. You can also add red and green leaf lettuce to your food varieties offered. I have been feeding my tortoises day lilies, roses, and hibiscus since they are in full bloom here now.

 

[Kerryann]

I'm in Saginaw, so not much here. I planned on using washed play sand and coconut, but then I hear about impaction, heard the coconut by itself may promote shell rot(which is coming along nicely. Go Lotrimin), organic soil, aspen bark and so forth. Thought the play sand might pass though as they are soaked daily .
Trying to replicate Southern Russia and Afghanistan with the play sand. I read that it is sandy and arid there, so I'm trying to be as realistic as possible. Suggestions would be sweet. Hey Kerryann, do you hibernate your Russians? Inside or outside? Substrate & depth? It would be good to have a Michigan source. Thanks.

Hi Pete,
I don't have any experience with shell rot (fingers crossed). How did the vet appointment go? I am in metro Detroit and have a pretty reasonable priced vet who owns a tortoise if you need someone and are local to me.
Typically I have heard Russians don't play well together and I think based on my own Russian i would say at least that is true in my case.
I use coconut substrate with no sand. The sand is hard to keep humid enough.
I use the powder calcium and just sprinkle it on their food. You can also add red and green leaf lettuce to your food varieties offered. I have been feeding my tortoises day lilies, roses, and hibiscus since they are in full bloom here now.

I got my Russian in December and she was not in the best of health. I did not hibernate her last year. I am planning to talk to the vet and see what he says. I have a russian and a marginated. I don't have the fridge space to actually hibernate them there and outside is a no because we get freeze. I don't plan to breed my girl, so I am not sure what he will recommend.

 

[TortoiseBoy1999]

Hi my name is Pete, I'm 44 and I live in Michigan. I've kept turtles since I was 19 and have had pancake tortoises, but mostly Russians as they are cheaper and hardier.
I've noticed one of my male Russian tortoises has developed a sunken area on a spinal scute, 2nd from the bottom. I feed them a diet of romaine(rarely), collard, mustard, turnip, dandelion greens. They were out a couple of cold nights and I'm worried the cold damp nights of michigan may have caused harm to them. He is still active & eating. Any info would be great. Thank You

The best thing you can do right now is keep him under his UVB bulb. If you don't have on GET ONE SOON AND FAST.

 

[Laura]

I'd cut out the romaine and go with more of a dark green red lettuce types. Spring Mix is a good choice.

You don't need a fridge, just a dark cold closet or the garage would work too. depending on how cold it gets.

---

my one male is in a 4x8 pen. are they together now? do they get a long? they usually don't like company, Esp in a small space.

 

[phowlett]

Tortoise is doing fine health wise, MBD has stopped, shell rot on bottom has receded. She did her daily trek accross lawn, eating weeds. Adminstered supplements today. She and the others get sunlight from 10:00 to 7:00, come in at night until we get 70 degree nights.
I will definitely get a UVB light. Thanks.
Yah, definitely thought about tortoise aggression/bullying. Had large female RT, dug under fence/escaped last summer, hibernated through mild Michigan winter and was found late-March sunning herself in rasperry patch. When she was introduced to smaller female smaller tortoise, smaller RT went off feed and shell problems appeared. Stress I would think. Also aggressive towards two other males, but they ignore her. Females have been separated.