New to site one question!

[redharedwarf]

I was wondering if anyone owned any Cherry headed red foots. I just bought two juviniles and I really don't know alot about them. I know they have the same care requirments as normal red foots but what are the differance between them if any? and How do I tell them two apart (ie red foots and cherry headed red foots) I'm afraid that I may have been taken advantage of and the guy i bought them from sent me normal red foots.

red

 

[gummybearpoop]

Welcome red!

Here is a link to the redfoot pages that should answer most of your questions
http://tortoiseforum.org/forum-4.html

There are lots of great people with great information and are willing to help you. Good luck!


~Norman

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Redharedwarf:

to the forum!

One of our members here on the forum has two web sites for redfoot tortoises:

www.turtletary.com/

www.redfoots.com/

You should have all your questions answered there! But we're glad to have you here too. Can you post a picture of your cherryhead for us?

Yvonne

 

[terryo]

...Here's what my Cherry Head looks like at 2 years of age...hope this helps. I don't know how to tell the difference, but I do know the Cherry Head has a red nose that looks like a bulb or something. I know this sounds stupid, but he is my only tortoise....so I can only show you his pictures to compare.

 

[Itort]

Welcome. Here's some pictures of my southern Brazil (cherryhead) :

And a Northern

Notice the difference of pastron coloring and patterning. The carapace on the southern also shows marbeling (though her's is not that heavy).

 

[tortoisenerd]

From the very little that I know some people feed slightly different based on age; Terry explains that on his website for example. That's about all I cam comment on so I just wanted to drop in and say congrats!

 

[Crazy1]

Yes this is the place for the info. Madkin did a great job explaining the difference.
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-6511.html

 

[redharedwarf]

I love this site thanks everyone.

red

 

[Madkins007]

The Big Two signs seem to be
- The 'Rudolph Sign'- red, slightly bulbous nose
- The mostly dark plastron, often with some sort of sunburst pattern.

They often have mottled or marbled carapaces, and usually have some other signs-
- Neck and head are dark skinned, with usually bright red scales scattered about
- Nose and legs are usually red- sometimes cherry red, sometimes brick red.
- Compared to most Redfoots, there is little yellow coloration
- There is often a 'spur' on the elbow

There is a lot of argument that the 'Brazilian Red-morph' should be a different species- the habitat, nose, spur, behaviors (males are a lot more aggressive), etc. suggests to a lot of experts that they are not really Red-foots. We'll probably have to wait for someone to do DNA testing on a large sampling to figure this out.

(Thanks for pointing out my earlier post on this, guys- but Robyn, my name is Mark AdkinS. You can drop the 007 bit all you want, but please let me keep my S. ;-)

 

[redharedwarf]

well here is a picture of the two of them what do you guys think. was I ripped off or are they cherry's?

Red

 

[Bryan]

well here is a picture of the two of them what do you guys think. was I ripped off or are they cherry's?

Red

Those are 2 very nice cherryheads congrats on the purchase!

 

[Madkins007]

They look 'Cherry', but knowing the parents and plastron would help. Nice looking!

 

[terryo]

They look like Cherry's to me and they are beautiful too.

 

[Bryan]

They look 'Cherry', but knowing the parents and plastron would help. Nice looking!

Out of curiosity I know that you have far more experience than I do but I had little doubt when I saw them that they are cherryheads. I've been shopping for cherryheads of late and I don't ever recall seeing this type of colors on other red foots with the possible exception of the Gran Chaco's but even those aren't as vibrant of red as these are. Cherryheads and maybe the Gran Chaco's are the most easy to differentiate from the northerns at first glance. If you have even a slight doubt that they are cherryheads what would you think that they could be? Like I said I'm still learning and I am very green to these beautiful torts, so it'd be great to know what gives you some doubt when I'd "bet the farm" on them being cherryheads. Here's an example of a young cherryheads plastron. It doesn't look like the adult plastron. http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=688927[hr]

They look like Cherry's to me and they are beautiful too.

They sure are a couple of beauties! Very nice cherryheads! In a few weeks time I can finally have an avatar and some pics of my new baby cherryheads

 

[Madkins007]

Bryan- I AM NOT an expert in ID'ing Cherry's, I've just read a lot of different reports and tried to figure out the most consistent elements.

That said- the photos look Cherry- the plastron is too young to help, but the head is basically red and black- lots of black skin is a common sign- no grays, no light scales, etce

 

[Bryan]

Neither am I by any stretch , however I have seen a ton of pics of cherryheads because that is the variety of Red Foots that I am looking to raise. I have also looked at other types of RF's and I see some difference in some of the populations, however some of them like Venezuelans for example have been line bred for color (I'm sure that they are far from the only RF's that have been bred for color like the cherryheads being farmed in Brazil as well as other people that have done this for generations) so it is difficult to know if these F3 generations are similar to the wild caught Venezuelans or if they are considerably different in terms of coloration. Cherryheads are a very distinct type and seem to be easy to differentiate from other populations when their heads are red or orange, I'm not sure how easy it would be to ID a yellowish cherryhead from other RF's as hatchlings to be honest because I've seen so few of them. I'm not a cherryhead expert by any means, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night LOL!

Bryan- I AM NOT an expert in ID'ing Cherry's, I've just read a lot of different reports and tried to figure out the most consistent elements.

That said- the photos look Cherry- the plastron is too young to help, but the head is basically red and black- lots of black skin is a common sign- no grays, no light scales, etce

 

[Bryan]

I could be wrong but I believe that Cherryheads are also known to have color on their necks while it is much rarer or maybe even non existent in Northern populations (not 100% sure so don't take it as fact).

The Big Two signs seem to be
- The 'Rudolph Sign'- red, slightly bulbous nose
- The mostly dark plastron, often with some sort of sunburst pattern.

They often have mottled or marbled carapaces, and usually have some other signs-
- Neck and head are dark skinned, with usually bright red scales scattered about
- Nose and legs are usually red- sometimes cherry red, sometimes brick red.
- Compared to most Redfoots, there is little yellow coloration
- There is often a 'spur' on the elbow

There is a lot of argument that the 'Brazilian Red-morph' should be a different species- the habitat, nose, spur, behaviors (males are a lot more aggressive), etc. suggests to a lot of experts that they are not really Red-foots. We'll probably have to wait for someone to do DNA testing on a large sampling to figure this out.

(Thanks for pointing out my earlier post on this, guys- but Robyn, my name is Mark AdkinS. You can drop the 007 bit all you want, but please let me keep my S. ;-)

 

[dmmj]

I always thought cherryead was a dwarf version of the redfoot, but you guys are saying they are actualy more colorful right?

 

[Bryan]

I always thought cherryead was a dwarf version of the redfoot, but you guys are saying they are actualy more colorful right?

That is also in question as a few long term keepers of cherryheads say that they maybe a little smaller but I know of 2 specimens that are 13.5 and 12.5 inches respectively and that's just from one breeder. They certainly aren't as large on average as the Gran Chaco variety, but not all cherryheads are 8-9" dwarfs. I've heard that the cherryheads that were brought in as "Paruguayans" seemed to grow faster than those that have been coming out of Bahia Brazil from farms. Perhaps they aren't as well fed as those in the US? Perhaps they have been bred to stay smaller? It's anyone's guess but while they maybe a smaller population of red foots whether or not they are dwarfs is a matter of opinion. Personally I'll take the opinions of long time cherryhead owners in which case the answer is no. As for the color, look at the posters pics, I have never seen a northern red foot that is anywhere near that deep of red on their head, but again I am new to "the game" so take my opinion with a grain of salt!

 

[Madkins007]

On the 'dwarf' issue, about the only thing I can say for reasonably sure, based on published reports is that 'cherrys' seem to often hit sexual maturity a little smaller than other Red-foots. I don't think the data show that they are smaller at maturity though.

An earlier maturity size/age is another suggestion that this may be a different species or subspecies.