Bob's urates

[Maggie Cummings]

I have spent my "tortoise career" believing that gritty urates were bad things. But I don't necessarily believe that anymore and I am hoping one of the Veterinarians on TFO will jump in with their opinion. Well, Bob has pasty gritty urates. He has access to water 24/7. I have seen him drink rarely, he has a water dish in his shed that I have seen him use on occasion (rare occasion) and he soaks in his water hole. There was a quantity of creamy colored fluid with this and you can see he sprayed the block...But he produces this...

they are so pasty they hold their shape...

Yeah, not only did I pick it up barehanded, it was still warm when I did...

He produces thick huge piles of gritty paste...

from this area...haha (I just wanted to show his cute butt)

But I think it is bad for us to load this species up with water, I don't believe their internal organs can handle all that water and I personally believe that my Bob is smarter than most tortoises (or at least has more personality) and IF he were thirsty he would drink more. For those of you who don't know, Bob is an 80 pound Sulcata. So I am just wondering if anyone else has these thoughts or these urates???

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I am never EVER eating cottage cheese again...

 

[dmmj]

All I can say is mine drinks from the water bowl almost every day. I don't soak it (sex unkown) but he does not pass urates as often as I would like, but they are creamy when he does. I have not yet seen gritty urates from my well hydrated torts, so I can't really say one way or the other, I will stop rambling now.

 

[Annieski]

I personnally think, that although we try so hard to replicate a natural enviornment for our captive tortoises [Sulcata being my ONLY experience] we will always fall short in some aspect of their care. From my readings and Vet conversations, I deduced that urates were a direct result of the way the kidneys expel toxins that are broken down during digestion. Urine is released when, instinctually, the tortoise has access to water via whatever means at the time, be it rainwater or diet[cactus pads, aloe,etc]. I have also thought about how tortoises[and perhaps all reptiles] are "designed" to conserve, to accommodate the "feast or famine" cycles of their surroundings. I also believe, that even our "soil content" plays a big role in what we think is an absolute must have for optimal health[our vegetable gardens are "enriched" for good crop production,even "organic" soil has something added. I still don"t think spring mix is available near the outskirts of the Sahara. I think the "key" is the seasonal changes that take place in a desert enviornment [the feast/famine cycle] that is a "normal" condition for how the tortoise is designed to "live". If I had my choice---I would pick salmon over chicken--but without any other options--- I will eat PBandJ. JMO

 

[Yvonne G]

I have never worried about the consistency of any of my tortoises' urates. Dudley's usually look like what you've shown above. He has a nice waterer and the only time he gives it any attention is when he sees me running the hose in it.

 

[DeanS]

Bob is screaming to come down here to sunny SoCal...you can't fight it Maggie

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Bob is screaming to come down here to sunny SoCal...you can't fight it Maggie

He has sun right here. This week end we are looking at 97 degrees. Add that to all the moisture in the air and he'll have the humidity they need so much...

 

[Yvonne G]

You'll be singing a different tune in a couple more months. What is it you always say??? "Oregonians don't tan...they rust!"

 

[Missy]

Tanks (2 yrs) looks like Bobs only smaller but the 15 pound Sulcata that I just got a few days ago is creamy white with know thickness. Beats me but I would like to learn more.

 

[chadk]

Could be a challenging winter for us PNW tort keepers. Supposed to an 'el nina' year, with a chance of more moisture and cooler weather combined. That means the chance of more snow than usual. So less grass and weeds. Better stock up on the mazzuri...

On the plus side, if you are a skiier or snowboarder, the snow pack is supposed to be really good this year

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I hope it snows a lot here. Bob is fine in his shed and I love the snow. But we just usually get a little...

 

[tortoisenerd]

My tort has gritty urates but not quite so solid as Bob's. The thing is, the urates are so infrequent (maybe once every week or two?), he is as well hydrated as I can do (he gets in the water on his own, I will place him in the water, he eats very moist greens), and he has regular urine often (about every other day that I notice--I find a nasty mess of urine at the bottom of the enclosure when I forget to look down the bottom of the aspen burrow!). I think all we can do is keep them as hydrated as we can (yes I think torts will drink when thirsty, but also that indoors especially the lights dry them out more than the sun, a moist burrow will hydrate more than even a moist substrate--and many like me use dry substrates, and plants still attached to the earth are more moist) and limit oxalic acid since that is another possibility in the equation (some people think in captivity this can cause more urates and stones, despite wild torts eating tons of the stuff). So, Bob's environment wins out over my tort's indoor dry habitat. Good topic! I sure wish I had sources for chemical free weeds, but Trevor's stuck with lettuce and greens for now.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

About 1/3rd of Bob's grazing area is clover, red crimson, white and a third that I forget it's name. He has not been seen to have any trouble with eating clover. Unless that's what is creating the gritty urates...

 

[DeanS]

About 1/3rd of Bob's grazing area is clover, red crimson, white and a third that I forget it's name. He has not been seen to have any trouble with eating clover. Unless that's what is creating the gritty urates...

It's supposed to be a roughage to water ratio...I have to remember where I saw it. But Aladar and Mortimer range from gritty to pastey...and it's almost daily! When I had large pythons...I always likened it to a large piece of chalk

 

[Tom]

That looks pretty normal to me. My adults do that same thing about 6 times a month.

I went to a lot of trouble to put in big walk in tubs for my adults to drink out of and soak in. They haven't used them once. NOT ONCE! I keep putting them in there so they will know what and where the water is, they just turn right around and walk out. Scooter drank a little once, but then promptly exited.

I've heard the "too much water" argument a lot regarding camels and other desert animals. ALL of the vets, experts and hobbiests I've talked to agree that you can't give them too much water. They will pass what they don't need and if they aren't thirsty, they won't drink. My camel always has access to water, but when I hand her a running hose, she seals her mouth around it and not a drop escapes for a minute or two. You can hear it running down her throat. Good times.

I believe it to be the same thing with tortoises. I'm certainly open to someone explaining to me how too much access to water is a bad thing, but I haven't heard it yet.

 

[DeanS]

My camel always has access to water, but when I hand her a running hose, she seals her mouth around it and not a drop escapes for a minute or two. You can hear it running down her throat. Good times.

That sounds like me with milk...a gallon a day