A few questions. (Pyramiding?)

[tyguy35]

Hey, so it's been a while since I have posted on the forum. I have been extremely busy, first off how is everyone doing? I have asked many times before but I am still having pyramiding issues. His bask is 95 to 100. There is a humidifier located 3 inches to the right of the basking spot. Where tank normally likes to sit when the fog is coming out while he basks. I seem to still be getting pyramiding. His diet is mostly mazuri and in the summer will be mostly grass and weeds. I have noticed the pyramiding seems to be located more centre to his body and smooth on the sides. Even on the same scutes half will be pyramiding and half align? This summer will be the first time he will be out most of all summer. I am hoping he can get some good light out there and start growing well. Leads me to my other question I need to start building his outdoor garden I need help with getting the right wood. I will be going to Home Depot I was thinking wood ties the square ones or the ones with rounded sides? Pressure treated? If anyone can post a link from Home Depot of some good wood that would be great?

Thanks
Tyler

 

[Yvonne G]

RE: A few questions. Any help?

He's very pretty. I think I might be seeing a slight sign of MBD...notice how the back of the carapace kind of slopes inward/downward. Do you supplement calcium, and does he have a UVB light?

I think that diet and exercise go along with moisture/humidity. You may want to try adding some grocery store greens to the Mazuri. And do you moisten the substrate?

But, I'm not an expert on pyramiding, and I have a 8 year old babcock that looks like a hand grenade.

 

[tyguy35]

RE: A few questions. Any help?

I think the picture maybe making it look as if its curving back. The back of the carapace is smooth like it should be. Well I think it should be that way. The basking end is always moist under the soil I also have a sprinkler that goes off every 2 to 3 hours10 am till 5pm along with the fogger. I use a mvb bulb. Exo terra solar glo. I am thinking of getting a long t5 bulb and also placing it inside? I also give him calcium d3 every other day and rap ashy super veggie 3 times a week.

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Here is the basking side

 

[mainey34]

You should not still be seeing Pyramiding if you are doing things correctly. Humidity, hydration, proper diet, exercise, natural sunlight. If you had the humidifier next to the basking spot, I cant believe that your humidity stayed a constant 80* and above.. what are temps and humidity?

 

[tyguy35]

95degrees and 75 to 88 humidity

 

[tortoise007]

are you doing the "spray till they drip" method every day? I would add in a few more greens from the store in with the Mazuri. does he have uva uvb ?

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http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-15137.html
I would check out toms link here

 

[mainey34]

Are you using a closed chamber set up?

 

[tyguy35]

I have a misting sprinkler along with the fogger so he gets a pray till he drips a few times a day. Then he dries himself out. It was an open top but it was a very tall sided tank. I never had this issue in my old tank with short sides I have now covered the top with a towel.
Mvb as his basking.

 

[wellington]

Isn't he almost two now? If I remember right, he is almost the same age as mine, which is two years this month. I don't remember, but when you got him, did you start him out right away with the humidity, or like me, did you already have pyramiding that you were now trying to stop? I don't think he looks badly pyramided. I remember back two years ago, reading that once they start to pyramid, do to the way the breeder started them, there maybe a certain amount they will pyramid no matter what we do to prevent it. I don't remember who said it, I did read it on the forum though. Are you sure he is still pyramiding, or is it that what he has is standing out more as he gets bigger, which hopefully will look smoother in time? Mine grew smoother on all the side scutes, but the top scutes keep looking bigger, but I think it's because they never smoothed out as much as the side ones did. Have you changed your bulbs? The MVB's should be changed at a year and the fluorescents at 6 months. To me, it sounds like your doing all you can do, unless your gauges are way off.

 

[tyguy35]

Ye he is almost two now. I believe you are right the breeder had not done the best of job keeping his babies humid. I had him growing smooth then he started doing this. I think your right though and I'm just now really noticing. This summer should be better for him though outside all summer.

Did anyone know what wood I could get at Home Depot?

 

[Tom]

I use regular plywood for my outdoor enclosures. I prime and paint it. That and 2x4s. Or I use slumpstone blocks. Cinder blocks work too.

I asked along time ago but is it Ontario CA or Ontario Canada? I have never been able to maintain humidity with an open top in a dry room. I don't know where or how you are measuring it, but for you to have 88% humidity in an open topped enclosure in a house with a heater running does not seem feasible. I couldn't achieve that with room humidifiers, enclosure humidifiers, shell and enclosure spraying 10 times a day, wet substrate and a mostly covered top. Does he have a humid hide? What are the enclosure dimensions.

If he is pyramiding and it refuses to stop is is a function of a pre-established pattern for pyramiding and too dry a carapace. My advice would be to continue what you are doing now, but do it in a closed chamber with lower wattage bulbs. All the water in the world isn't helping you, so it's time to change up. The window for fixing this is quickly running out on a two year old. Also the daily Mazuri is not helping. It is exaggerating the problem. Pyramiding occurs with growth in conditions that are too dry. Faster growth in the wrong conditions causes faster pyramiding. Stop feeding Mazuri every day, until you sort out the problem and it won't be as bad.

 

[wellington]

Tom, he lives in Canada. Am I remembering it right. That if started wrong, and pyramiding has started or is about too, that no matter what we do, the pyramiding will still happen to a point, even if we et them in the right conditions? Also, you said the window to fixing it, is running out on a almost two year old. At what age can we figure what they got is what they are going to have? When do we stop the high humidity and be happy for the smoothness we did get? Sorry, kinda hijacking this thread, but I know tyguy35 would want to know too.

 

[Tom]

In my experience pyramiding can be like a pendulum. The bigger, heavier and more momentum that pendulum has the harder it is to slow it down and stop it. If you have heavy pyramiding in full swing on a two year old animal it will be very hard to stop it. It you have a light amount in an 8 week old hatchling, it should be pretty easy to stop.

I don't know the magic size that leopards need to be for us to not worry about pyramiding any longer. I think it will be different for the different subspecies too, and the myriad hybrids will really confuse this issue. The magic size for sulcatas is 6-8". If you can grow them smooth to that size, then they will not start to pyramid, even in dry conditions. Terry K told me there is no "safe" size for redfoots. My leopards were 6-8" and I had them out all day everyday in our dry summer air and they started to pyramid a bit. Weird looking really. The shield and all the inner growth rings are totally flat but the margins are starting to grow upward. we'll see what it does in time.

 

[Tortus]

Tom is right as always. Closed chamber is the way to go. I will do that if I decide to get a pp hatchling.

I started mine in a completely open top, but the humidity was never very low. I kept the substrate saturated and used a heat pad to create humidity, which went to almost 80% at night. I kept the enclosure behind a blanket. My house is very humid to begin with. Around 60%.

It started getting mild pyramiding very early. I'm not sure if it was due to the conditions or how it was raised by the breeder (dry) during the 1st month of its life. But I did end up going to a half open enclosure during the day with a humidifier blowing on the open end, still behind the blanket. The reading in the center can get over 80% during the day. At night I fully close it, with the heat mat still going where it sleeps, and the hygrometer pretty much tops out. Everything gets condensation and when I pic the tort up in the morning it's nice and moist.

I'm not saying my current setup is ideal, but since I've been doing this new growth has been very smooth. It gets around 15 hours per day completely closed at 90% plus.

Here's a pic I just took btw. The center reading between open and closed is amost at 80%, and the humidifier is only 3/4 the way up. At night I remove "Smokey" the penguin and put the other half of the lid on to close it completely where the humidity skyrockets. It's working for me anyway, but still not as good as completely closed 100% of the time I'm sure.

 

[wellington]

Thank you Tom and Tortus.

 

[Tortus]

Wellington I caught mine early. At around 2 months of age and made drastic changes. I have no idea what would work for a 2 year old. But I'm hoping for the best.

 

[mainey34]

You cant have an open top, with a humidifier going. Get him wet. Then dry off. Its defeating the purpose. This is why I ask about humidity, closed chamber and humid hide. There is still time to help this guy. If the OP is willing to make these changes...mazuri is not the key either. Weeds, grasses, dark greens need to be fed.

 

[tortoise007]

are you doing the "spray till they drip" method every day? I would add in a few more greens from the store in with the Mazuri. does he have uva uvb ?

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http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-15137.html
I would check out toms link here

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[tyguy35]

Yes it would be Ontario, Canada. I think I should close the top on the side without the basking lamp move the humidifier to that side and turn on a che and have an under mat heater. Have the misting system keep the basking side wet but the other side damp and warm with the middle completely dry? The enclosure is 5 feet by 2.5 feet and 3 feet tall. Either way he is now going to be outside all summer long it should really help. I am also thinking of moving him to my basement where it is much cooler and I can place whatever I need inside the enclosure without making him to hot like it can get upstairs I can completely cover the top of the enclosure. Maybe thats a better idea then I can have the basking side completely fogged up.

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What if I completely boxed in the hot side put a piece of wood or plastic on the middle ( raised off the ground to so he can get to the hot side ) and completely cover the top that should help right? even if the lamp is low the fog and mist should help keep it a nice temp in his bask?

 

[volcom6981]

What age is too late for pyramiding? I figured after 2 years old there is not much you can do? I know you can't fix what had been done, but at that age will it continue to get worse?