Male Russian tortoise stopped eating when separated.

NYGiants-1925

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Okay so I have read lots of things on here but never posted. Hopefully I am doing this correctly.

I have a friend that was gifted 3 Russian tortoises and one of those Amazon tortoise houses which was way too small for 3. It was 43"X24". She had 2 males and 1 female, all together. She tried finding them a home for about a year. I have now taken 2 of them. And I am going to be honest here, I don't have the indoor room for 2 8x4 enclosures. So I have made 2 6x3 indoor enclosures and I am going to start the outdoor enclosures soon. about 15x3 for each of the those.
Now to my issue. When I first took them a couple of weeks ago, I kept them together in the one indoor enclosure for about a week while I built the second one. Everything was fine. He was annoying her but they were both eating well everyday, walking around quite a bit and would bury every night under the hot side. Neither one has ever used the hides. I brought them to the vet, had them checked over and she said all appears well and healthy. Still waiting on the decals and blood work to come back from the lab. Once the second enclosure was done, I moved him into it. He has not eaten since. It has been 5 days now. He doesn't look weak at all. Still will move around, seems energetic but is refusing to eat. I have tried increasing the soaks to 3 times a week. I have tried different kinds of greens. I stopped adding the calcium powder in case that was bothering him. I even tried to put him back in with the female for feeding and nothing. Getting a little concerned here.
Both enclosures are set up the same. As of now the hides are just cardboard boxes until I make something out of stone. I am using the Arcadia ProT5 UVB kit with the 12% HO bulb in each. I bought the solarmeter 6.5R and at ground level the reading is a 6. I have that on 5 hours a day. I have the hot side heat lamp over a piece of flat stone which is around 97 degrees. I am using the Flukers deep thermal heat bulb for that. I just ordered a couple of ceramic heat emiters because the vet told me to keep the cool side between 75 and 80. I was just keeping the room at 72, but she wants it higher. I feed and water them on terra cotta plates. I am using Coco Bliss coco coir for the substrate. And I have 2 LED daylight br40 flood lights on each enclosure for extra light, plus they are near windows which really brightens up during the day.
So, question is, and I know I shouldn't feed fruit but is there anything you feel I can try to add to the food to entice him to start eating again? Smash a few blueberries or some banana into the greens maybe? Or am I doing something wrong that led to his refusal to eat?
Thanks for any thoughts.
 

wellington

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Well, it's best for him and specially her that you keep them apart. So that was the right thing to do.
He was moved from one place to yours, then from being stressed but with a female, to now another new home and no female. That's a lot in just a week or so. Young ones handle moves much better than older ones. Give him time to adjust. Keep soaking and offering food. He will eventually eat.
Be sure to get some humidity in each enclosure 30-50%
 

SinLA

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Life moves slowly for tortoises. When I rescued mine, and it experienced a massive life change (kept in a yard with another Russian and redfoot) and then was kept in a "double" tortoise house until I could get an outdoor space set up, he probably didn't eat for a month.

Give him more time, you don't need to give him fruit. Keep trying dandelions and hibiscus if you have (not from anywhere with pesticides though)
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Hello!
You've done a really great job with taking these tortoises and setting up enclosures for them!

I agree, that stress might be the reason (that's really a load of changes). Vet's recommendation to raise temperatures is what's usually done for sick tortoises, so when eating issue is resolved you may lower them (60-65F in the night are fine). Also, a fecal test can highlight another possible reason.

I have a few suggestions about enclosures, if you don't mind:
1. UVI of 6 is too high, you need to raise the UVB lamps a little to get readings of 4-4.5. Tortoise usually hide during sun UV peaks, so they aren't exposed to very high UV levels. Also, you can adjust timer to just 4 hours.
2. Consider replacing deep heat projector with an incandescent bulb for basking. DHP output is primary in IR-A spectrum which has drying effect on tortoise shell.

Also, you can offer him squash or radicchio. Ask the previous keeper, what did she fed him and offer that (perhaps, that's what you've done already).
 

NYGiants-1925

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Well, it's best for him and specially her that you keep them apart. So that was the right thing to do.
He was moved from one place to yours, then from being stressed but with a female, to now another new home and no female. That's a lot in just a week or so. Young ones handle moves much better than older ones. Give him time to adjust. Keep soaking and offering food. He will eventually eat.
Be sure to get some humidity in each enclosure 30-50%
Yes humidity in the house is at 47% right now so that's in range then. I will give him more time. Thank you.
 

NYGiants-1925

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Life moves slowly for tortoises. When I rescued mine, and it experienced a massive life change (kept in a yard with another Russian and redfoot) and then was kept in a "double" tortoise house until I could get an outdoor space set up, he probably didn't eat for a month.

Give him more time, you don't need to give him fruit. Keep trying dandelions and hibiscus if you have (not from anywhere with pesticides though)
Hibiscus I may not be able to find right now but dandelion I am sure I can find. Thank you.
 

NYGiants-1925

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Hello!
You've done a really great job with taking these tortoises and setting up enclosures for them!

I agree, that stress might be the reason (that's really a load of changes). Vet's recommendation to raise temperatures is what's usually done for sick tortoises, so when eating issue is resolved you may lower them (60-65F in the night are fine). Also, a fecal test can highlight another possible reason.

I have a few suggestions about enclosures, if you don't mind:
1. UVI of 6 is too high, you need to raise the UVB lamps a little to get readings of 4-4.5. Tortoise usually hide during sun UV peaks, so they aren't exposed to very high UV levels. Also, you can adjust timer to just 4 hours.
2. Consider replacing deep heat projector with an incandescent bulb for basking. DHP output is primary in IR-A spectrum which has drying effect on tortoise shell.

Also, you can offer him squash or radicchio. Ask the previous keeper, what did she fed him and offer that (perhaps, that's what you've done already).
Okay thanks. I can raise the uvb and lower the timer. Switching the lamp is easy enough. And I will give some squash a try. Yes I have been feeding everything that she was feeding. I'll keep offering. Thanks again.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Okay thanks. I can raise the uvb and lower the timer. Switching the lamp is easy enough. And I will give some squash a try. Yes I have been feeding everything that she was feeding. I'll keep offering. Thanks again.

Please, keep us updated. It's really important to know what worked and what not and if there was something in lab results..
 

NYGiants-1925

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So I was called from the vet and the blood work came back fine but the fecal test showed a small number of pinworms. She said this is common with them. She said she doesn't want to treat them right now because she doesn't like the issues the meds can cause on the digestion system for such a small amount. We will monitor and if it increases, we can treat. She does not think that is the reason for not eating. She also thinks it is stress from the moves. But wants me to call back Friday if he still hasn't eaten.
She told me to try one or two thin slices of cucumber and rub it on his greens as well. I tried that today and he was interested and came to the food. He took a few bites of the cucumber, then stopped and walked away. Maybe it's a start. But that's all the updates I have for now.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Even if it's a small update, it's better than no news at all. And looks like you've found a good enough vet, that's really great.
 

NYGiants-1925

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Okay so now I have a question for everyone. Get some opinions. Today is 10 days of not eating. The vet gave me a bag of critical care herbivore and said if nothing the next couple days, I may have to start force feeding some of this by syringe to get some nutrition into him. I just got home from work, fed them and nothing. Then I decided to give putting him back into her enclosure another shot. After about 10 minutes, he started eating with her. Not a ton like he used to but he did eat for about 5 minutes.
So I can't keep them together because all he does is annoy her. But what is your opinions on feeding them together everyday?
I am concerned with that because if that works, will he ever eat alone in his enclosure? Also he wont be able to go back for more food throughout the day once I put him back into his enclosure.
I think for now I am going to put them together so he will eat. But this can't be permanent.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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This might sound silly, but what if you move her, not him, into the other enclosure?

And if only "pair feeding" sessions work - I would keep doing that until he gains some weight. Maybe twice a day under supervision.

Such behaviour is quite puzzling. My only guess is a "gaze following" - he can't find food on his own (loss of smell, maybe) and copies the feeding behaviour of the other tortoise. Established routine (schedule, food dish place, looks of food) may help in that case.
 

NYGiants-1925

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This might sound silly, but what if you move her, not him, into the other enclosure?

And if only "pair feeding" sessions work - I would keep doing that until he gains some weight. Maybe twice a day under supervision.

Such behaviour is quite puzzling. My only guess is a "gaze following" - he can't find food on his own (loss of smell, maybe) and copies the feeding behaviour of the other tortoise. Established routine (schedule, food dish place, looks of food) may help in that case.
I will try moving her to him tomorrow. He will go to his food dish when I put food in it, he just wont eat. He looks at it for a couple minutes then walks away. And the 2 enclosures are set up the same. But I will try anything. It's almost like he misses her, but she wants nothing to do with him and she is doing much better without him.
Thanks for the advice.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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I will try moving her to him tomorrow. He will go to his food dish when I put food in it, he just wont eat. He looks at it for a couple minutes then walks away. And the 2 enclosures are set up the same. But I will try anything. It's almost like he misses her, but she wants nothing to do with him and she is doing much better without him.
Thanks for the advice.
Okay, I see. Maybe you can take him outside if weather allows and see if he will graze.
Please, stay in touch. I hope he will be fine.
 

TammyJ

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I think you could just get another female from a reputable breeder and put them all together after a period of quarantine. That may solve the issue.
 

NYGiants-1925

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I think you could just get another female from a reputable breeder and put them all together after a period of quarantine. That may solve the issue.
Haha, yeah I thought of that. But I only took these 2 because of living conditions. Not sure I want more.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Haha, yeah I thought of that. But I only took these 2 because of living conditions. Not sure I want more.
With 1 male and 2 females you will definitely get more :) Let's leave it as a last resort :)

I'm running out of ideas, but maybe a rubber tortoise can ease his loneliness (Amazon sells even that).
 

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