Please remember that while everyone is allowed to express their opinion on the forum, being rude or argumentative about it is not permitted.
jason g. said:Well time to leave this thread. Evidently a new tort owner is dumb and shouldnt have any concerns. The Cincinnati zoo is a wonderful zoo but they to expressed there concern if there was a problem and from the sounds of it they were really pretty open minded to outside opinions. Sorry your upset but I really do think concern was said out of kindness on TaraDodrills behalf not to talk crap. She even said in her 1st post the cincy zoo was one of her favorites. Sorry your angry I don't think that was the point of this thread to anger anyone. Just to express concern.
Tom said:Somewhere my mother has a picture of a five or six year old Tom riding a Galapagos tortoise in the enclosure at the SD Zoo. I can't say for sure, but I doubt I would be here right now typing this on a tortoise forum if it were not for that childhood tortoise riding experience. That is where I first fell in love with tortoises.
Tom said:I can't say that I share the POV expressed here. I think zoos are great and for the most part do an excellent job of caring for their animals. Sure there are exceptions. A lot of times the zoo people with good intentions are torn between political correctness, bureaucratic red tape, budgetary restraints, animal rightist non-sense, and yes, sometimes even some ignorance. I have studied wild animals in the wild and I have personally worked in two different zoos, as well as touring many others behind the scenes. Let me tell you something. If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian elephant, the first thing I would do is hunt for a ship to jump on to get to an American Zoo. Have you seen the footage of that elephant being torn apart and eaten while still alive by an entire pride of lions? It took them all night to bring that elephant down, and it took hours for that elephant to finally reach the comfort and relief of death. Life in the wild is hard, cruel, relentless and totally unforgiving. Sure you have more space. More space for predators and parasites to get you. More space to starve to death in. More space for ivory poachers to hunt you in. More space for villagers to shoot and torture you for eating their crops. More space for your rivals to attack and harass you. More space for competing herds to drive you out of... You get the point. Just the foot care that they receive in a zoo would be worth it, not to mention an unlimited supply of excellent food, and the temperature controlled barns. Life in a Zoo ain't so bad, and life in the wild ain't all rosy all the time. How many of you people have even been to the countries where these animals are from? Things there are not like they are here. All things considered, if I were a wild animal and I had the choice, I'd take the cushy zoo life. And I'd MUCH rather be a sulcata in one of my pens, than a sulcata in a hole in the ground in Sudan.
How many people would even know what Galapagos tortoise even is, if not for zoos? The San Diego Zoo used to have a ton of big Galaps and not only were patrons allowed to walk around in their enclosure, we were allowed to feed them and little kids were allowed to sit on them and ride them for pics. Somewhere my mother has a picture of a five or six year old Tom riding a Galapagos tortoise in the enclosure at the SD Zoo. I can't say for sure, but I doubt I would be here right now typing this on a tortoise forum if it were not for that childhood tortoise riding experience. That is where I first fell in love with tortoises. If I had only been able to look at them from a distance, or if they had not been there at all, who would I be today? Those animals had the choice to walk away, they had several areas they could go to if they wanted to be left alone and some of them did go there. But the majority of them wanted and enjoyed the interaction and attention.
I seriously doubt that any of the germs on a human hand are going to have any effect on a tortoise. It is possible for someone to walk in their own tortoise pen at home and then track something into the Galop pen on their shoe, but a simple foot bath could solve this problem. You've all heard my spiel on not mixing species and disease potential, and here I'm the one saying I think the risk is acceptable in this case. Now as soon as they try to put some other tortoise species in this enclosure, I'll be the first to jump up and down and rant and rave... The benefit of personal interaction with these amazing animals far outweighs the minor disease risk for these animals in my opinion.
As far as the pyramiding thing goes, that ship sailed along time ago for these babies. You should be talking to the facility in TX that started them about that.
By all means, make every effort to improve the lives of captive animals, but I think slamming this Zoo is not called for.
Let me tell you something. If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian elephant, the first thing I would do is hunt for a ship to jump on to get to an American Zoo.
Thank you Tom. I have been frustrated over this thread long enough. I am glad to hear some comments other than zoo bashing. I checked out those pics of the tortoises, they are not nearly as bad as originally described. The first redfoot I hatched 13 years ago looks very similar. I must being doing something right since she is still alive and well.Tom said:I can't say that I share the POV expressed here. I think zoos are great and for the most part do an excellent job of caring for their animals. Sure there are exceptions. A lot of times the zoo people with good intentions are torn between political correctness, bureaucratic red tape, budgetary restraints, animal rightist non-sense, and yes, sometimes even some ignorance. I have studied wild animals in the wild and I have personally worked in two different zoos, as well as touring many others behind the scenes. Let me tell you something. If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian elephant, the first thing I would do is hunt for a ship to jump on to get to an American Zoo. Have you seen the footage of that elephant being torn apart and eaten while still alive by an entire pride of lions? It took them all night to bring that elephant down, and it took hours for that elephant to finally reach the comfort and relief of death. Life in the wild is hard, cruel, relentless and totally unforgiving. Sure you have more space. More space for predators and parasites to get you. More space to starve to death in. More space for ivory poachers to hunt you in. More space for villagers to shoot and torture you for eating their crops. More space for your rivals to attack and harass you. More space for competing herds to drive you out of... You get the point. Just the foot care that they receive in a zoo would be worth it, not to mention an unlimited supply of excellent food, and the temperature controlled barns. Life in a Zoo ain't so bad, and life in the wild ain't all rosy all the time. How many of you people have even been to the countries where these animals are from? Things there are not like they are here. All things considered, if I were a wild animal and I had the choice, I'd take the cushy zoo life. And I'd MUCH rather be a sulcata in one of my pens, than a sulcata in a hole in the ground in Sudan.
How many people would even know what Galapagos tortoise even is, if not for zoos? The San Diego Zoo used to have a ton of big Galaps and not only were patrons allowed to walk around in their enclosure, we were allowed to feed them and little kids were allowed to sit on them and ride them for pics. Somewhere my mother has a picture of a five or six year old Tom riding a Galapagos tortoise in the enclosure at the SD Zoo. I can't say for sure, but I doubt I would be here right now typing this on a tortoise forum if it were not for that childhood tortoise riding experience. That is where I first fell in love with tortoises. If I had only been able to look at them from a distance, or if they had not been there at all, who would I be today? Those animals had the choice to walk away, they had several areas they could go to if they wanted to be left alone and some of them did go there. But the majority of them wanted and enjoyed the interaction and attention.
I seriously doubt that any of the germs on a human hand are going to have any effect on a tortoise. It is possible for someone to walk in their own tortoise pen at home and then track something into the Galop pen on their shoe, but a simple foot bath could solve this problem. You've all heard my spiel on not mixing species and disease potential, and here I'm the one saying I think the risk is acceptable in this case. Now as soon as they try to put some other tortoise species in this enclosure, I'll be the first to jump up and down and rant and rave... The benefit of personal interaction with these amazing animals far outweighs the minor disease risk for these animals in my opinion.
As far as the pyramiding thing goes, that ship sailed along time ago for these babies. You should be talking to the facility in TX that started them about that.
By all means, make every effort to improve the lives of captive animals, but I think slamming this Zoo is not called for.
Benjamin said:Thank you Tom. I have been frustrated over this thread long enough. I am glad to hear some comments other than zoo bashing. I checked out those pics of the tortoises, they are not nearly as bad as originally described. The first redfoot I hatched 13 years ago looks very similar. I must being doing something right since she is still alive and well.
yagyujubei said:Here's a video of the exhibit, which is nearly three weeks old now. So you can see the 'deplorable' conditions there.
http://cincinnatizoo.org/blog/animals/galapagos-tortoise/
ascott said:Let me tell you something. If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian elephant, the first thing I would do is hunt for a ship to jump on to get to an American Zoo.
If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian Elephant I would wish that humans would not rape the earth thinking that they have the right to consume all that she has to offer....a world of balance is what I would seek out..... Not a ship to take me to a place that humans once again "think" is the land of plenty....
Tom, there is nothing in your post that "offends" me, and if it did that would be alright, as I like you and I too have my feelings and opinions on this particular subject.....I have yet to see in person a Galap Tortoise and I do not ever want to seek out one to see one in a zoo as my point of reference....I would much rather watch a documentary that shows them where they belong.....
The same with the Lions, Tigers and bears----oh my