Zoo visit made me sad

[TaraDodrill]

I was looking forward to seeing the Galapagos Island tortoise new exhibit when we too my husband's grandson on his first trip to the zoo over the weekend. The Cincinnati Zoo is one of the nicest in the country, really focused on conservation, but I think they really dropped the ball with the vulnerable torts.

As a strict follower of Tom's tort care advice, I found it upsetting that not only were people and strollers allowed into their outdoor enclosure, but the 4-year old torts already had pyramiding. Visitors had to stay on the paced path, but that provided little protection since the torts also walked on the path. People were told to only "pet" them on their shells, but of course most did not listen. The germs introduced from kids who failed to wash their hands after visiting the petting zoo can't be good for the torts. Kids are Germy on a good day, let alone a day spent eating cotton candy and touching everything at a zoo

The zoo staff and college interns couldn't answer even the most basic questions about the torts, I felt I was educating them and I'm still a newbie! They had never heard the term pyramiding and didn't even recognize the pics I pulled up on my iPhone from a quick google search were adult Galapagos torts without pyramiding. They had raised the torts since they were a year old, came from a zoo in Texas " known as experts" in tort conservation. I will try and share pics later, can't upload directly to forum anymore have to use tiny pic.

The staff was worried about the torts getting too hot, which I thought was odd. The outdoor enclosure for six 4-year old Galapagos is smaller than my backyard habitat for two Sulcatas. Wish I had not seen them now.

Have to write an article about the visit, going to email my press contact and set up an interview for their primary caregiver before I write anything. Hope that individual can shed some light on their care, the folks tasked with telling the public about them were totally clueless.

There weren't any Sulcatas at the zoo, some snappers and sliders. I hope they build much larger habitats if they are going to add more torts to their reptile area. I don't think I can tolerate going to the zoo again, alligator habitat made me sad as well.

Rant over, figured you folks would understand my angst. My hubby said he only knows what I have taught him and forwarded from Tom and even he knew more than the zoo staff I spoke with for my article. My hubby has become a habitat freak, our tort enclosure just keeps growing and improving. He took pics of the Galapagos pond, it was attractive and I guess will be replacing our tort pond sometime soon lol

 

[ascott]

I understand where you are coming from....I have a love hate relationship with zoos and animal parks....I love that they attempt to provide a way for the public to see different animals and species of critters...but the down side is that the animal will always be at the short end of the stick....just the way it is....and this is the hate part for me.

Sure, some will say well without the zoos and marine life parks people would never have a chance to see some animals in person...to that I say, so what---then pick a career or develop a passion in which you seek out ways to make that a possibility in their own life...not that the animal has to sacrifice its life for our convenience....

When I was little my Mom would take me to the LA Zoo, my fav pen was the Alligator...he was big and beautiful and was always there every time we went and I would go there right away and could sit and stare at him...well, for some reason there was a time as I was growing up that we did not go for some years (likely the folks divorce and such) and so as I got older I went to the LA Zoo and rushed (like when I was a child) to go see my fav...and that time I suddenly was sad because as a grown person, with a different mind and a bag full of different life experiences I noticed the walls, the small size and the life that this guy had was less that desirable...then it dawned on me, sure he is "taken care of" but at what cost? Again, the love and hate of the whole situation.....

I believe sometimes our lines for education and profit get mixed up and are hugely to blame...I also believe that animals in zoos should be there because that particular animal was found in a bad situation and was not able to be nursed back to health and released back to where it came from and not caught and ripped from its wild life just to be tossed into a cage or fish bowl....and I know some places do a better job at providing habitats but really, an entire ocean vs a bowl in a park....or a habitat designed for a tiger or lion will never compare to their wildlands.....and for these reasons I believe I will always have a love hate issue with the profit for viewing parks....again, not that I am not aware nor that I am uninformed---I believe I just see it as a way once again that we rape and pillage for our own desires....sorry you walked away with the icky feeling, it sucks I know.

 

[TaraDodrill]

Ascott,
I couldn't agree more with everything that you said. I think that will have to be my last trip to the zoo. I was the same way with the elephants as a child, I spent about a minute at the elephant enclosure this time. It was "remodeled". Sure it looks mire attractive now, but their indoor and outdoor roaming space is decidedly smaller

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Yeah, sadly many zoos are lacking in both knowledge and quality husbandry.

Definitely contact the zoo's management about your experience. Hopefully, they will be open-minded to improvements. After all, it would seem advantageous to try and provide the best care possible and encourage you to come back (= spending money).

I haven't seen pics, but I wouldn't get too judgemental on the pyramiding. IN most cases, it sets in very early within the first yr of life, and if what they said is true, the zoo did not have them during that time. Just because a particular establishment is displaying a tortoise with pyramiding (zoo or petstore), doesn't mean that establishment is directly responsible for the condition.

Was the path roped off or otherwise guarded off? If not, perhaps you can suggest that in your letter to the zoo, as well as hand-sanitizer stations at the entrances to the exhibit (as well as the petting zoo, too).

 

[TaraDodrill]

Student of the Reptile,

I hope to be able to get the responsible care giver to explain their husbandry practices in detail and hopefully he will be openminded as you suggest. I just heard back from my the zoo's PR director and I will be interviewing the caregiver by phone later this week.

Not roped off, hand sanitized at the end of the walk for human protection but no hand washing station prior. They had pics of the torts on their arrival day from Texas. This month is the first time the torts have been viewable by the public, they have been in private habitat at zoo since their arrival

The size of their habitat is concerning too, perhaps they have a grazing area not accessible to the public. I hope so. That will be one of my questions too.

 

[ascott]

I was the same way with the elephants as a child, I spent about a minute at the elephant enclosure this time.

These are creatures that will stay together forever, will fight to save one of their own, will stay with a downed member until they pass, will mourn the loss of one of their own and will show great respect for a fallen that is not one of their own....and I too can not stand and marvel at them in a zoo----my heart gets to sad and I know that what I see is what their life will be for too many years....again, there is no way anyone is going to convince me that their "mental enrichment activities" make up for all that they have had taken from them by being forced into that life....or when we walk past their cages and they are tethered even in those cages "for the safety of the handler"...well, possibly that is because we are not designed to rule everything, huh....anyways...let me get off this subject....

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

I was the same way with the elephants as a child, I spent about a minute at the elephant enclosure this time.

These are creatures that will stay together forever, will fight to save one of their own, will stay with a downed member until they pass, will mourn the loss of one of their own and will show great respect for a fallen that is not one of their own....and I too can not stand and marvel at them in a zoo----my heart gets to sad and I know that what I see is what their life will be for too many years....again, there is no way anyone is going to convince me that their "mental enrichment activities" make up for all that they have had taken from them by being forced into that life....or when we walk past their cages and they are tethered even in those cages "for the safety of the handler"...well, possibly that is because we are not designed to rule everything, huh....anyways...let me get off this subject....

I know exactly what you mean. Elephants in captivity are one of the few things that make me cry.

 

[Itort]

Sometimes a zoo can surprise you. There is zoo outside of Peoria, Il dedicated to native species of midwest only. They have an eighty acre herbivore enclosure (buffalo, elk, and whitetail) sited next to a 5 or 6 acre buffalo wolf enclosure. All natural vegetation (ungroomed). We stood on observation platform and the interaction between the wolf pack and elk/buffalo herd. We felt like we traveled back two hundred years on the tallgrass prairie. By the way the buffalo/elk/whitetail enclosure is larger than the entire St. Louis zoo (of it is part of).

 

[TaraDodrill]

Itort, sounds lime a wonderful facility. The Wilds in Ohio is a reserve and not a zoo, but offers a similarity wonderful habitat. Glad to hear some places get it right

 

[Oogway]

I saw a tortoise in a pet shop the other day with very bad pyramiding.

 

[wellington]

My problem with zoo's is that they should know first and foremost everything there is to know about the species. All the correct info. I do like zoo's some do good by saving threatened specie. However, someone should not be able to visit a zoo and see anything wrong with the animals, like a pyramided tortoise. If they can't afford to put more research into the correct husbandry of their species, then they shouldn't have those species. More regulations should be placed on zoos and standards upheld. So sad that the workers who should know everything there is to know about the Galops, new nothing. I would sure write or talk to someone there and educate them on the proper care.

 

[TaraDodrill]

Wellington, I hope to get some husbandry issues clarified when I interview the head reptile keeper. Will update everyone after the interview

 

[ChiKat]

I was the same way with the elephants as a child, I spent about a minute at the elephant enclosure this time.

These are creatures that will stay together forever, will fight to save one of their own, will stay with a downed member until they pass, will mourn the loss of one of their own and will show great respect for a fallen that is not one of their own....and I too can not stand and marvel at them in a zoo----my heart gets to sad and I know that what I see is what their life will be for too many years....again, there is no way anyone is going to convince me that their "mental enrichment activities" make up for all that they have had taken from them by being forced into that life....or when we walk past their cages and they are tethered even in those cages "for the safety of the handler"...well, possibly that is because we are not designed to rule everything, huh....anyways...let me get off this subject....

+10000

 

[TaraDodrill]

Email from Zoo staffer. He called too and will interview tomorrow. Still not impressed

First, thank you for your interest in our Galápagos Tortoise Display and particularly for your concern for our animals. I am always delighted that our guests show such a keen interest and knowledge of the animals we care for, here at the Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Garden. The animals that we have on display are young Galápagos Tortoise, Chelonoidis nigra vicina (microphyes), which are also known as Iguana Cove Tortoises. These are one of the best known animals inhabitants of the Galapagos Islands and, as you know, gave the Archipelago its name; “Galápagos” means tortoise in Spanish. On Isabella Island, this subspecies lives in a harsh environment and consumes cacti, grasses, lichens and berries. They can go without food or water for up to 18 months.

Our herd of seven tortoises arrived as very young animals and was brought in during the 2009 season as part of the celebration of the 150th anniversary of the publication of On the Origin of Species and the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth. The large, walk through, display was constructed and opened this year to allow for a more permanent display and to permit our guests to see these magnificent animals up close and personal.

To address your concerns, regarding the development of the carapace of the tortoises, we are aware of the issue and have taken corrective measures to ensure the future well-being of the herd. Unlike pyramiding that is associated with other tortoises, zoos across the country have observed levels of this disorder in Galápagos Tortoises that correlate to caloric content in their diets. Refinements in the feeding regimen, to better simulate the sparse vegetation they incur in the wild, have halted the described developmental process. Currently, there are less than 200 Galápagos Tortoises in North America, so we are constantly learning how to improve our husbandry techniques.

One of the overarching goals of our Zoo is to inspire our guests with wildlife, and our hope is that the Galápagos Tortoise Display meets those expectations. My personal hope is that we connect our guests to these animals and highlight the conservation efforts underway on Galápagos, where tortoises are propagated, reared and released back onto the appropriate islands after they are large enough to resist attacks by the introduced dogs and rats.

Again, thank you for your concern and interest in our facility and animals. I would be more than happy to answer any additional questions that you may have regarding the Galápagos Tortoise Display, or any other animal we have on exhibit here at the Zoo.

Sincerely,



David A. Oehler
Director of Animal Collections
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Garden
3400 Vine Street
Cincinnati, OH 45220

 

[jason g.]

Ascott,
I couldn't agree more with everything that you said. I think that will have to be my last trip to the zoo. I was the same way with the elephants as a child, I spent about a minute at the elephant enclosure this time. It was "remodeled". Sure it looks mire attractive now, but their indoor and outdoor roaming space is decidedly smaller

I hope it's not because of you these torts will have a better life now. A wonderful person spoke up for some animals that couldn't speak for themselves. Those torts will Thank you and if everyone is more educated then zoos will have no choice but to make there enclosures better . I agree it is definitely not an ideal life for any animal but if they are there then it's up to us to speak up for them when they are not being cared for correctly. I'm thankful for zoos I wouldn't have the love for or the knowledge I have of foreign animals. Truth is I probably would of never heard of them. Before I get flamed for loving zoos. I wish all animals in zoos were rescues but unfortunately in this world if that's what zoos wanted trappers would just harm them to get them so they could be used! I am torn between my love for animals and my love for seeing them. I just think as long as people speak for them and demand good treatment for them like TaraDodrill did they will have a better life. Of course not perfect but better. It's not a very good response but I don't know what way my life would of went if I had never been to a zoo? I really don't! That's where I truly started loving non domestic creatures.

 

[TaraDodrill]

I hope my inquiry and pending news article did some good. Sometimes journalists can make a difference by applying enough pressure and fear of bad PR and public backlash, but its a shame that it takes fear of reduced revenue to highlight the issue. Not done with the article yet, want to talk with the Texas zoo who is attempting to breed Galapagos hatchlings to help further the vulnerable species first

 

[jason g.]

I hope my inquiry and pending news article did some good. Sometimes journalists can make a difference by applying enough pressure and fear of bad PR and public backlash, but its a shame that it takes fear of reduced revenue to highlight the issue. Not done with the article yet, want to talk with the Texas zoo who is attempting to breed Galapagos hatchlings to help further the vulnerable species first

I hope so if not I'll be at the zoo raising hell. Lol it's only 1 hour from my house. I'll let my 9 year old tell them how to raise torts. My little girl could probably do a better job. On the weekend I let her do all the care taking. She does it without having to be told how to do anything. I'm so proud of my little girl. It all started when I told her when she could care for rose without any help she would have the title of tortoise keeper. She did everything she could to earn that title. She's proud of it!!! She should be she's a very good keeper. It was her idea to give our 5 1/2" tort a 3' by 2 1/2' hide in her new indoor inclosure.

 

[Tom]

I can't say that I share the POV expressed here. I think zoos are great and for the most part do an excellent job of caring for their animals. Sure there are exceptions. A lot of times the zoo people with good intentions are torn between political correctness, bureaucratic red tape, budgetary restraints, animal rightist non-sense, and yes, sometimes even some ignorance. I have studied wild animals in the wild and I have personally worked in two different zoos, as well as touring many others behind the scenes. Let me tell you something. If I were reincarnated as an African or Asian elephant, the first thing I would do is hunt for a ship to jump on to get to an American Zoo. Have you seen the footage of that elephant being torn apart and eaten while still alive by an entire pride of lions? It took them all night to bring that elephant down, and it took hours for that elephant to finally reach the comfort and relief of death. Life in the wild is hard, cruel, relentless and totally unforgiving. Sure you have more space. More space for predators and parasites to get you. More space to starve to death in. More space for ivory poachers to hunt you in. More space for villagers to shoot and torture you for eating their crops. More space for your rivals to attack and harass you. More space for competing herds to drive you out of... You get the point. Just the foot care that they receive in a zoo would be worth it, not to mention an unlimited supply of excellent food, and the temperature controlled barns. Life in a Zoo ain't so bad, and life in the wild ain't all rosy all the time. How many of you people have even been to the countries where these animals are from? Things there are not like they are here. All things considered, if I were a wild animal and I had the choice, I'd take the cushy zoo life. And I'd MUCH rather be a sulcata in one of my pens, than a sulcata in a hole in the ground in Sudan.

How many people would even know what Galapagos tortoise even is, if not for zoos? The San Diego Zoo used to have a ton of big Galaps and not only were patrons allowed to walk around in their enclosure, we were allowed to feed them and little kids were allowed to sit on them and ride them for pics. Somewhere my mother has a picture of a five or six year old Tom riding a Galapagos tortoise in the enclosure at the SD Zoo. I can't say for sure, but I doubt I would be here right now typing this on a tortoise forum if it were not for that childhood tortoise riding experience. That is where I first fell in love with tortoises. If I had only been able to look at them from a distance, or if they had not been there at all, who would I be today? Those animals had the choice to walk away, they had several areas they could go to if they wanted to be left alone and some of them did go there. But the majority of them wanted and enjoyed the interaction and attention.

I seriously doubt that any of the germs on a human hand are going to have any effect on a tortoise. It is possible for someone to walk in their own tortoise pen at home and then track something into the Galop pen on their shoe, but a simple foot bath could solve this problem. You've all heard my spiel on not mixing species and disease potential, and here I'm the one saying I think the risk is acceptable in this case. Now as soon as they try to put some other tortoise species in this enclosure, I'll be the first to jump up and down and rant and rave... The benefit of personal interaction with these amazing animals far outweighs the minor disease risk for these animals in my opinion.

As far as the pyramiding thing goes, that ship sailed along time ago for these babies. You should be talking to the facility in TX that started them about that.

By all means, make every effort to improve the lives of captive animals, but I think slamming this Zoo is not called for.

 

[yagyujubei]

Well. it sounds to me like you went there specifically to find fault. I don't know why I continue to read all of these whiney threads. It seems to be a trend lately. Maybe they should all be put in their own category.

 

[TaraDodrill]

Wow you are rude and way off base. I went there excited to see the Galapagos torts and became saddened when I saw torts raise by professionals from hatchling with obvious signs of pyramiding and in an enclosure which was very small. I asked questions nicely to staff and it became apparent the ones manning the "keeper encounter" were not knowledgeable so I asked to speak with someone who was for the sake of the torts and to give the zoo a chance to provide further details about their husbandry practices before publishing an article which would have not been positive based on the info at hand.