Winter Slowdown?

[Tom]

Yeah. It's weird though...if temperature is the "problem", and it's 88-90F inside his box, and I'm putting food inside, then why isn't he eating it? It must be something else besides just temps.

It absolutely IS more than just temps. Same thing with all the Testudo that want to hibernate, even though they live completely indoors in well lit, warm enclosures. Tortoise just "know" its winter. I think the shorter daylight hours have an effect, in addition to the temperatures.

 

[Big Charlie]

Yeah. It's weird though...if temperature is the "problem", and it's 88-90F inside his box, and I'm putting food inside, then why isn't he eating it? It must be something else besides just temps.

Charlie is warm inside his box too and he isn't eating either. He is much bigger than your tort. In previous years he would come out and bask on sunnier days in the winter, even if it wasn't warm enough to eat. This year I think he is so cozy in his box that he doesn't want to come out where it is colder.

 

[thegame2388]

It absolutely IS more than just temps. Same thing with all the Testudo that want to hibernate, even though they live completely indoors in well lit, warm enclosures. Tortoise just "know" its winter. I think the shorter daylight hours have an effect, in addition to the temperatures.

Then if it's something more than temps then it's not something I can control. Best I can do is soak him, feed him by forcing him out of his nightbox, and let him do his thing until Spring time. I just find it weird that an animal can live without eating food nor has the desire to eat yummy Mazuri!

 

[Tom]

Then if it's something more than temps then it's not something I can control. Best I can do is soak him, feed him by forcing him out of his nightbox, and let him do his thing until Spring time. I just find it weird that an animal can live without eating food nor has the desire to eat yummy Mazuri!

It is weird. I hate it. I hate winter.

I put pumpkin out two days ago and it just sat there.

 

[AZSid]

Guess Remington doesn't have that internal seasonal clock. Could it be because he only sees natural light for a few hours a day outdoors anyway and while inside, he has the same light setup at all times? Is this bad? Should I shorten the length of light in his home to reflect the sunrise/set outside? Little monster eats like a pig!

 

[Tom]

Guess Remington doesn't have that internal seasonal clock. Could it be because he only sees natural light for a few hours a day outdoors anyway and while inside, he has the same light setup at all times? Is this bad? Should I shorten the length of light in his home to reflect the sunrise/set outside? Little monster eats like a pig!

When they are housed primarily indoors, this seasonal light and temperature thing tends to have less of an effect. I would carry on as usual and change nothing.

 

[thegame2388]

It is weird. I hate it. I hate winter.

I put pumpkin out two days ago and it just sat there.

It's VERY weird. I can't imagine just staying in a nightbox and not doing a thing for days on end. Sometimes I put him outside just for my own sanity. I want him to eat eat eat!

 

[Tom]

It's VERY weird. I can't imagine just staying in a nightbox and not doing a thing for days on end. Sometimes I put him outside just for my own sanity. I want him to eat eat eat!

THAT is the difference between a primate and a reptile… Primates gotta eat every day. Reptiles can go months without eating in some cases.

 

[thegame2388]

THAT is the difference between a primate and a reptile… Primates gotta eat every day. Reptiles can go months without eating in some cases.

I feed him when I put him outside and he'll eat 10-15 mazuri dipped in water. Then I'll let him go back in his box and sleep all the way until the next day. What a life.

 

[Markw84]

Then if it's something more than temps then it's not something I can control. Best I can do is soak him, feed him by forcing him out of his nightbox, and let him do his thing until Spring time. I just find it weird that an animal can live without eating food nor has the desire to eat yummy Mazuri!

There is something you can do to help this quite a bit...

I do a lot of work with a colony of Spotted Turtles I have. To get the best results I need them to go into brumation and have that dormant period(Don't want to sound pretentious and I also normally say "hibernate" when talking to most people, but reptiles do not hibernate - they brumate. There is definite differences) . However the first few years I'm raising the young, I keep them indoors and don't let the brumation trigger in. I do that primarily by photoperiod of at least 14 hours. Keeping temps up helps, but without the photoperiod, they will still slow down. I use daylight bulbs to stimulate this as much as possible. That way I get fours years of growth in two years. They remain very healthy and breed much sooner than the 10+ years it can take in the wild.

Keep in mind the species that brumate or mammals that hibernate come from temperate areas where the photoperiod varies by 4 - 8 hours and more summer vs winter.

 

[Tom]

There is something you can do to help this quite a bit...

I do a lot of work with a colony of Spotted Turtles I have. To get the best results I need them to go into brumation and have that dormant period(Don't want to sound pretentious and I also normally say "hibernate" when talking to most people, but reptiles do not hibernate - they brumate. There is definite differences) . However the first few years I'm raising the young, I keep them indoors and don't let the brumation trigger in. I do that primarily by photoperiod of at least 14 hours. Keeping temps up helps, but without the photoperiod, they will still slow down. I use daylight bulbs to stimulate this as much as possible. That way I get fours years of growth in two years. They remain very healthy and breed much sooner than the 10+ years it can take in the wild.

Keep in mind the species that brumate or mammals that hibernate come from temperate areas where the photoperiod varies by 4 - 8 hours and more summer vs winter.

Mark, He is running lights in his outdoor box already, and it doesn't seem to be making any difference. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Markw84]

With an outside house I believe they are still getting cues from the sunrise / sunset if they have access to outside. As sunset nears all my tortoises head for the house regardless of time of year if its a day they are out. If my turtles I referred to above are next to a large window, it seems to be more of a problem to keep their growth up, than if I remove the cues from outside. Also, adding daylight colored bulbs helped. But, maybe the tortoise is just going through a slower cycle of growth, and activity, regardless of time of year. Some of mine (tortoises) I've tracked meticulously seem to go through those cycles no matter what I do.

 

[thegame2388]

There is something you can do to help this quite a bit...

I do a lot of work with a colony of Spotted Turtles I have. To get the best results I need them to go into brumation and have that dormant period(Don't want to sound pretentious and I also normally say "hibernate" when talking to most people, but reptiles do not hibernate - they brumate. There is definite differences) . However the first few years I'm raising the young, I keep them indoors and don't let the brumation trigger in. I do that primarily by photoperiod of at least 14 hours. Keeping temps up helps, but without the photoperiod, they will still slow down. I use daylight bulbs to stimulate this as much as possible. That way I get fours years of growth in two years. They remain very healthy and breed much sooner than the 10+ years it can take in the wild.

Keep in mind the species that brumate or mammals that hibernate come from temperate areas where the photoperiod varies by 4 - 8 hours and more summer vs winter.

So you're suggesting a put a light in there? Not as a heating source but just merely as a source of light?

 

[thegame2388]

Mark, He is running lights in his outdoor box already, and it doesn't seem to be making any difference. What are your thoughts on that?

I'm no running lights in the outdoor box. People were convincing me against that. Are you suggesting I should?

 

[Big Charlie]

I'm no running lights in the outdoor box. People were convincing me against that. Are you suggesting I should?

Is it for you or for your tortoise? He is fine doing what he is doing. It's natural.

 

[thegame2388]

Is it for you or for your tortoise? He is fine doing what he is doing. It's natural.

It would be for him, and to put me at peace. If he doesn't need it, then I won't do it. But nowadays he doesn't come out...AT ALL. Only way he gets out is if I pick him up, spoon-feed him, and let him roam around and bask in the sun. Otherwise, he won't do it.

 

[Markw84]

I'm not saying you SHOULD have lights on for him, but you asked if there is anything you can do about the slow down periods and I read that you are not providing any light at all in the tortoise house So I suggested that photoperiod can, in my opinion diminish the effect of that response. I know it does in temperate species. I live up by Sacramento in the central valley. This morning it was 29 degrees in my back yard. The sun is up for 9 1/2 hours this time of year. In the summer it's up just shy of 15 hours. Because of all my work with N American turtles, I have developed a routine of Providing a photoperiod of 14 hours year round for those I wish to keep from brumating. So keeping temps up and the photoperiod up works to keep these turtles completely active and growing the same year round

I have done that for my sulcatas in their tortoise house as well except with a 12 hour photoperiod as they are equatorial. But I know sulcatas don't bromate like temperate species, though they do go through periods of aestivation. That seems more heat and food availability related. So is photoperiod really important? Not sure, but I do like to try to simulate a more natural condition for them. Mine still go through a slow down period, but I don't keep their house a warm as Tom and others (but changing that now). They live in burrows most of their time where there is little light, but most of mine when they have burrowed, seem to go in and turn around, and often get close to the opening to rest where they can see out. Either way they are still seeing the day / night effect and I would think take cues from that. Since I'm using a tortoise house (as you can see in my avatar) not just a hide, I do choose to simulate that 12 hour photoperiod for them. Having said all that - hey still go through a marked slow down.

Sorry so wordy, but an interesting topic I've researched and thought a lot about.

 

[Big Charlie]

I'm not saying you SHOULD have lights on for him, but you asked if there is anything you can do about the slow down periods and I read that you are not providing any light at all in the tortoise house So I suggested that photoperiod can, in my opinion diminish the effect of that response. I know it does in temperate species. I live up by Sacramento in the central valley. This morning it was 29 degrees in my back yard. The sun is up for 9 1/2 hours this time of year. In the summer it's up just shy of 15 hours. Because of all my work with N American turtles, I have developed a routine of Providing a photoperiod of 14 hours year round for those I wish to keep from brumating. So keeping temps up and the photoperiod up works to keep these turtles completely active and growing the same year round

I have done that for my sulcatas in their tortoise house as well except with a 12 hour photoperiod as they are equatorial. But I know sulcatas don't bromate like temperate species, though they do go through periods of aestivation. That seems more heat and food availability related. So is photoperiod really important? Not sure, but I do like to try to simulate a more natural condition for them. Mine still go through a slow down period, but I don't keep their house a warm as Tom and others (but changing that now). They live in burrows most of their time where there is little light, but most of mine when they have burrowed, seem to go in and turn around, and often get close to the opening to rest where they can see out. Either way they are still seeing the day / night effect and I would think take cues from that. Since I'm using a tortoise house (as you can see in my avatar) not just a hide, I do choose to simulate that 12 hour photoperiod for them. Having said all that - hey still go through a marked slow down.

Sorry so wordy, but an interesting topic I've researched and thought a lot about.

I find this very interesting. I live in the central valley too. Some years, my sulcata has had a burrow and some years he hasn't. When he has had a burrow, he still had a place on the patio with a heater that he used when it was rainy or extremely cold. This year he doesn't have a burrow and I made some improvements to his heated area. He has spent the past month in his heated box, not coming out at all. It is much colder this year than in past years. I don't know if that has something to do with it because how would he know it is cold outside of his box if he never emerges? When he had a burrow, I don't think more than 2 weeks ever went by without him coming out, even if it was just to sun himself for an hour and not to eat.

His burrow was fairly deep - more than 5 feet underground and possibly as much as 10 feet. I've always heard that caves maintain the same temperature year round and that it is close to the average annual temperature of the area. The average annual temperature here is around 63 degrees.

 

[Tom]

He has spent the past month in his heated box, not coming out at all. It is much colder this year than in past years. I don't know if that has something to do with it because how would he know it is cold outside of his box if he never emerges?

This, I think, is unanimous among SoCal tortoise keepers right now. This winter is consistently colder than any other I can remember. Its been over a month since the temp was in the 70's here and I really can't remember that ever happening before.

Some of my sulcatas are still coming out, but not much and not for long. Tuck is hardly coming out at all, while Goldy comes out nearly everyday, grazes for a bit and then goes back in. These are my two extremes. Same with my leopards. The females are still coming out and eating, but not staying out much. One of the males comes out and wanders around or suns himself, but the other two are hardly coming out at all.

I'm actually considering adding some lights to their boxes. I've never considered this before because its never been needed. This winter is really unprecedented here, especially considering the last few that had so many days in the high 70's or 80s and a few in the 90s.

 

[Honeybuns]

I know it's pretty normal to have a slowdown for tortoise during the winter season but I just want to make sure.

He lives outdoors 24/7 and can come in/out of his outdoor nightbox as he pleases. Temps inside are constant at around 85-87F throughout the day and night (when it's a chilly 40F outside).

Oil-heater and Reptifogger keep the inside at around 85F, 80% humidity where he normally "sleeps" within the box.


However, as the winter season is now upon us, he rarely comes out of his box to eat, poop, whatever. I weighed him 3 weeks ago (he's 2.5 yrs old and weighed 4720g 3 weeks ago), and now he's 4715g. Of course, he pooped and pee'd yesterday during his 1 hour soak so that might explain that, but he used to gain 100g a week! So he's technically supposed to be over 5000g at this point, but he's not.

It's currently overcast and we're expecting an El Nino in California pretty soon, so I'm not expecting much sun at all for this season so his source is UVB/UVA sunlight will be limited. Should I put an MVB in his outdoor nightbox enclosure even though it's not really needed to get him kick-started every morning? I know the temps are fine, but what about the UVB/UVA benefits?

If I'm over-worrying, please let me know.

Thanks

Hi I have a 7 year old and I live in Cali. I used to worry constantly (and sometimes still do) because once we moved Hardy outside full time we got an insulated dog house, heat lamp, etc. and he hates it!! He refuses to stay inside. I used to hatch a lock to keep him in and raccoons out and he busts through it. Everyone says they need heat. Well Hardy doesn't like it. He wants his natural habitat. He goes up the embankment and burrows and seriously just takes care of himself. They are smarter than people give them credit for. They know when they need to eat/drink, bask in the sun or burrow. Yes I climb up every so often and poke him with a stick (especially with El Niño it's been pretty cold) and yep he's alive and he's stubborn and he comes out when he feels like it!! He's healthy and happy and my baby! I can't give you advice on the heaters because as I said he refuses to use them but I can say don't worry so much. Your baby is smart and he will figure it out on his own. Good luck!