Weird Pyramiding

[CourtneyG]

So my two one year old baby pancake tortoises have different shell growth. One is growing smooth while the other is pyramiding. Humidity is 80% during the night and drops to 50% during the day. They have full spectrum lighting and get greens and grasses offered to them and the food is dusted about once to twice a week with a vitamin/calcium and they have a cuttlefish bone in the tank all the time. Why is this one like that? In the pictures the darker one is the odd one with the strange growth.

 

[Anyfoot]

Courtney, can you tell us more about the enclosure please, heat source type, hides etc. A photo of the enclosure would I be great.
Have noticed them displaying different habits?

 

[Tom]

Sounds and looks like its too dry in there. Use a closed chamber and bump up the humidity.

Also, if they are living as a pair, the stress might be a factor too.

 

[CourtneyG]

Sounds and looks like its too dry in there. Use a closed chamber and bump up the humidity.

Also, if they are living as a pair, the stress might be a factor too.

Explain how so please?

 

[CourtneyG]

Courtney, can you tell us more about the enclosure please, heat source type, hides etc. A photo of the enclosure would I be great.
Have noticed them displaying different habits?

 

[CourtneyG]

The lamp is a mercury vapor bulb

 

[CourtneyG]

I have not noticed different habits, they all come out to eat in the morning when I put food out, and go hide the rest of the day. I might catch one or two of the babies soaking in their bowl before I turn off the light at night.

 

[CourtneyG]

I did a cage change out today so I changed the substrate to reptichips, going to see how it holds the humidity different compared to the other mix of top soil, coconut and sand.

 

[teresaf]

I see BOTH are pyramided. One is worse than the other though. Try getting a new thermometer/hygrometer or two in order to make sure they are correct
0

 

[Anyfoot]

Its an ongoing puzzling thing to why when we keep a group of babies together some are smooth and some show some signs of pyramiding. Diet, stress levels and habits are just some things to consider.
At the moment I'm looking at diet and habits.
For diet I feed only one type of food at a time and plenty of it. This way I know each tortoise is getting it's fair share of what ever is fed, they get a mixed diet but over a longer period of time. Personally I'm not convinced it's diet.
For habits I'm trying to give every equal opportunity to each tortoise. So I have no basking lights, this eleminates one being able to dry under an incandescent light and another never sitting under the light. I have a constant ambient temp throughout the enclosure, it's the same for every Tortoise.
I'm not offering a hide as such, I just have piles of spaghnum moss, this way for each tortoise to feel secure they have to hide under the moss and there's more than enough space for each tortoise to do so. I've noticed that you can usually predict where each tort will sleep, if I offer a hide, over time they trample the moss in the hide down and sit on the moss, not in it. My thought is no hide makes all torts hide under moss and everything is equal. I soak them every day, this eleminates one sat in the water bowl and another not sitting in the water bowl.
Time will tell, I just can't see any other way of trying to keep everything equal except raise all babies on their own(which is not good for any breeder).
I have a group of 11 babies at around 7 to 10 months old. They all look good but is some differences. In this group I offered hides and also the sun shines through the window allowing some to bask, whilst others don't seem bothered. This is a variation I've tried to eliminate with my next baby group of 12. Time will tell.

 

[CourtneyG]

I see BOTH are pyramided. One is worse than the other though. Try getting a new thermometer/hygrometer or two in order to make sure they are correct
0

So the the lighter one is not pyramiding, their pattern makes it seem that way, and the baby scutes are just slightly raised, but their growth is even. I will order a new thermometer/hydrometer though to make sure it is not an inaccuracy with that, but all 5 other babies in there are growing smooth, this one is just being weird.

 

[CourtneyG]

Its an ongoing puzzling thing to why when we keep a group of babies together some are smooth and some show some signs of pyramiding. Diet, stress levels and habits are just some things to consider.
At the moment I'm looking at diet and habits.
For diet I feed only one type of food at a time and plenty of it. This way I know each tortoise is getting it's fair share of what ever is fed, they get a mixed diet but over a longer period of time. Personally I'm not convinced it's diet.
For habits I'm trying to give every equal opportunity to each tortoise. So I have no basking lights, this eleminates one being able to dry under an incandescent light and another never sitting under the light. I have a constant ambient temp throughout the enclosure, it's the same for every Tortoise.
I'm not offering a hide as such, I just have piles of spaghnum moss, this way for each tortoise to feel secure they have to hide under the moss and there's more than enough space for each tortoise to do so. I've noticed that you can usually predict where each tort will sleep, if I offer a hide, over time they trample the moss in the hide down and sit on the moss, not in it. My thought is no hide makes all torts hide under moss and everything is equal. I soak them every day, this eleminates one sat in the water bowl and another not sitting in the water bowl.
Time will tell, I just can't see any other way of trying to keep everything equal except raise all babies on their own(which is not good for any breeder).
I have a group of 11 babies at around 7 to 10 months old. They all look good but is some differences. In this group I offered hides and also the sun shines through the window allowing some to bask, whilst others don't seem bothered. This is a variation I've tried to eliminate with my next baby group of 12. Time will tell.

I throw some moss in for them, they have 3 different areas they can hide under, but maybe the moss will give them more of a place to hide.

 

[Souptugo]

Enclosure seems really small to me. Could they be stressed? Lack of roaming room?

 

[Tom]

Explain how so please?

Explain what? The humidity thing or the pair thing?

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. 50% humidity and a hot mercury vapor bulb with an open top are too dry and desiccating.

Living as a pair, as opposed to singly or in a group, is very stressful for tortoises. As Any foot mentioned, and as many of us have noted, about 10% of our captive raised babies of any species seem to show some pyramiding even when conditions seem ideal. I've noticed this many times when growing groups of 6-10 hatchlings all in the same enclosure with the same routine and same food. About 10% show some inexplicable pyramiding. Like Anyfoot, I'm attributing this to stress, or possibly individual habits, like one tortoise spends most of its time in a humid hide box, while the pyramiding tortoise spends more time under the desiccating heat lamps. This is one of the yet unsolved mysteries of pyramiding.

 

[CourtneyG]

Explain what? The humidity thing or the pair thing?

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. 50% humidity and a hot mercury vapor bulb with an open top are too dry and desiccating.

Living as a pair, as opposed to singly or in a group, is very stressful for tortoises. As Any foot mentioned, and as many of us have noted, about 10% of our captive raised babies of any species seem to show some pyramiding even when conditions seem ideal. I've noticed this many times when growing groups of 6-10 hatchlings all in the same enclosure with the same routine and same food. About 10% show some inexplicable pyramiding. Like Anyfoot, I'm attributing this to stress, or possibly individual habits, like one tortoise spends most of its time in a humid hide box, while the pyramiding tortoise spends more time under the desiccating heat lamps. This is one of the yet unsolved mysteries of pyramiding.

Sorry should have been more clear on what I was asking for, but you explained the stress situation nicley.

 

[CourtneyG]

Enclosure seems really small to me. Could they be stressed? Lack of roaming room?

It's about 3feet long and they have multiple levels to climb over and in, I would have liked longer but I do not have an area to put such a bigger tub.