Warning about reptiles shops in Asia

Noelluene

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So recently I was at some exotic pet stores in my area picking up some supplies when I overheard a conversation between a staff of the shop and someone who was asking about why his tortoise wasn't eating. Intrigued, I eavesdropped on the conversation a bit longer out of curiosity. Now, I have already known for a long time that these reptile shops treated their animals poorly. Crowded enclosures, lack of any temperature regulation, filthy water and diseased animals were all too common. Many of these shopkeepers have also been very dishonest about the animals they are selling, claiming that you can keep a pair of fully grown RES in one of these horrible plastic reptile cages with no filter. But to my dismay I decided to listen to this conversation anyway, and it went something like this:

Man: So my baby tortoise hasn't been eating lately, is there anything I can do about it? I think it is sick.
Shopkeeper: What temperature are you keeping it at?
Man: I've been keeping it warm, around 37. (degrees Celsius, which is around 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit) (this guy is probably trying to make turtle soup by blasting a sick baby tortoise with heat)
The man's kid: Oh we've also bought some medicine for it.
Shopkeeper: Did you buy it from our store?
Man: No we bought it online. It still hasn't eaten after we gave it the medicine. (God knows what that meant)
Shopkeeper: Well then I don't know what it is. But you can buy this medicine here, which improves appetite for tortoises. It is very good. Just soak the tortoise in this medicine for a couple hours every day for a week then it should be fine. Look it is very cheap as well.
*after some talk about the price the man buys it

This conversation left me in shock of how bad some of the "advice" these shopkeepers give can be. It was clear to me that both these people had no idea what on earth they were talking about, and the shopkeeper only cared about selling the product. And it's not just this particular store. Many reptiles shops here in SE Asia do this practice where they advertise turtles and tortoises as very cheap and low-maintenance pets, which results in most of these animals dying. Then the people who bought the turtle originally comes back to complain, in which then the shopkeepers sell them this medicine or whatever, saying that it died because they didn't use this medicine. Ofc, the turtle still dies, and so the shopkeepers sell them a new medicine and so on and so fourth. A lot of these shopkeepers actually have next to no knowledge about these animals, and even refer to RES to their local colloquial name "Brazillian turtle", which then makes people believe that RES are from Brazil... In infuriates me to no end knowing that these people capitalize o children wanting a pet and the fact that most people not knowing a thing about keeping turtles. Treat this as a warning, but never listen to any of the "advice" these shopkeepers give. Especially when they treat their own turtles at the stores so terribly. This is a huge problem in SE Asia and in my local area due to the general lack of knowledge about turtle keeping and the lack of regulation entirely.

I'll go back to that place again later this week, I'll try to take some pictures of the conditions the animals are housed in to show how poorly the turtles and tortoises are treated. This thread will be updated when I post the pictures.
 
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ZEROPILOT

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So recently I was at some exotic pet stores in my area picking up some supplies when I overheard a conversation between a staff of the shop and someone who was asking about why his tortoise wasn't eating. Intrigued, I eavesdropped on the conversation a bit longer out of curiosity. Now, I have already known for a long time that these reptile shops treated their animals poorly. Crowded enclosures, lack of any temperature regulation, filthy water and diseased animals were all too common. Many of these shopkeepers have also been very dishonest about the animals they are selling, claiming that you can keep a pair of fully grown RES in one of these horrible plastic reptile cages with no filter. But to my dismay I decided to listen to this conversation anyway, and it went something like this:

Man: So my baby tortoise hasn't been eating lately, is there anything I can do about it? I think it is sick.
Shopkeeper: What temperature are you keeping it at?
Man: I've been keeping it warm, around 37. (degrees Celsius, which is around 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit) (this guy is probably trying to make turtle soup by blasting a sick baby tortoise with heat)
The man's kid: Oh we've also bought some medicine for it.
Shopkeeper: Did you buy it from our store?
Man: No we bought it online. It still hasn't eaten after we gave it the medicine. (God knows what that meant)
Shopkeeper: Well then I don't know what it is. But you can buy this medicine here, which improves appetite for tortoises. It is very good. Just soak the tortoise in this medicine for a couple hours every day for a week then it should be fine. Look it is very cheap as well.
*after some talk about the price the man buys it

This conversation left me in shock of how bad some of the "advice" these shopkeepers give can be. It was clear to me that both these people had no idea what on earth they were talking about, and the shopkeeper only cared about selling the product. And it's not just this particular store. Many reptiles shops here in SE Asia do this practice where they advertise turtles and tortoises as very cheap and low-maintenance pets, which results in most of these animals dying. Then the people who bought the turtle originally comes back to complain, in which then the shopkeepers sell them this medicine or whatever, saying that it died because they didn't use this medicine. Ofc, the turtle still dies, and so the shopkeepers sell them a new medicine and so on and so fourth. A lot of these shopkeepers actually have next to no knowledge about these animals, and even refer to RES to their local colloquial name "Brazillian turtle", which then makes people believe that RES are from Brazil... In infuriates me to no end knowing that these people capitalize o children wanting a pet and the fact that most people not knowing a thing about keeping turtles. Treat this as a warning, but never listen to any of the "advice" these shopkeepers give. Especially when they treat their own turtles at the stores so terribly. This is a huge problem in SE Asia and in my local area due to the general lack of knowledge about turtle keeping and the lack of regulation entirely.

I'll go back to that place again later this week, I'll try to take some pictures of the conditions the animals are housed in to show how poorly the turtles and tortoises are treated. This thread will be updated when I post the pictures.
Unfortunately that isn't just an ASIAN thing.
Pet shop owners here in America are also sometimes guilty of caring more about the money than the animal. Or they're either too arrogant or ignorant to learn about correct care.
Some breeders even start their tortoises in a manner that they are almost guaranteed to die later on.
Maybe it costs too much. Maybe correct care is inconvenient.
I have no idea.
You seem to be very passionate about this. And I applaud your efforts
 

wellington

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You can try to help the situation by butting in on the conversation and referring the person that is needing help to this forum and/or giving the shop owner ideas to improve the store tortoises and turtles health and condition. Speak up for the animals. Ignoring it doesn't help.
 

Noelluene

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You can try to help the situation by butting in on the conversation and referring the person that is needing help to this forum and/or giving the shop owner ideas to improve the store tortoises and turtles health and condition. Speak up for the animals. Ignoring it doesn't help.
I would like to interfere but a lot of people who run these shops aren't very nice and don't give a **** about the well being of these turtles. The last thing I want is to be trapped in a shop with a few dudes who are angry at me for calling them out in front of customers.

I do work for local NGOs to promote knowledge about turtle keeping and to educate people on the harmful effects of releasing pet turtles into the wild. However, our influence is very limited... The best thing to do is to just not buy from shops that mistreat their animals, but it is also difficult since they are the cheapest ones as well.
 

wellington

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I would like to interfere but a lot of people who run these shops aren't very nice and don't give a **** about the well being of these turtles. The last thing I want is to be trapped in a shop with a few dudes who are angry at me for calling them out in front of customers.

I do work for local NGOs to promote knowledge about turtle keeping and to educate people on the harmful effects of releasing pet turtles into the wild. However, our influence is very limited... The best thing to do is to just not buy from shops that mistreat their animals, but it is also difficult since they are the cheapest ones as well.
I see, no, I wouldn't want you to get hurt or gone.
 

Noelluene

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Sorry I had to cover up a ton of stuff. However, photography is not allowed in these places and therefore I don't want anyone figuring out what I look like and where exactly this place is.

Anyway keeping animals in such conditions is unfortunately very common here. It it clear that the people who run these shops don't give a **** out animal welfare, so never take advice from them because they don't know how to properly care for their animals.

IMG_20211114_162916.jpgIMG_20211114_162617.jpgIMG_20211114_162702.jpgIMG_20211114_162844.jpg
 

DoubleD1996!

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Sorry I had to cover up a ton of stuff. However, photography is not allowed in these places and therefore I don't want anyone figuring out what I look like and where exactly this place is.

Anyway keeping animals in such conditions is unfortunately very common here. It it clear that the people who run these shops don't give a **** out animal welfare, so never take advice from them because they don't know how to properly care for their animals.

View attachment 336052View attachment 336053View attachment 336054View attachment 336055
Poor guys. This reminds me of Tiger King.
 

MEEJogja

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I've seen the same at big fancy shopping malls in Jakarta, full of Gucci and Luis Vuitton shops. Below all the aquariums they display the shells and skeletons of the animals that have died. You can buy monkeys in tiny cages and Everyone is very happy to see the animals, absolutely no one is filled with the same sense of distress and sadness as I am.
We still have topeng monyet here too, despite it being banned in this city, I do see them from time to time. In other cities they are at every set of traffic lights.
Again, everyone is delighted to see a monkey on a mini bicycle being dragged by a chain around it's neck at high speed.
The faces of everyone around fills with joy.
Bizarre and very hard for me to accept when I first came here. Unfortunately I have become somewhat desensitised to it now, what with seeing birds in absolutely tiny cages every day for years on end.
 

Noelluene

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I was once at this pet shop looking through their animals. They had a bucket where they put the shoveled tortoise poop and rotting uneaten food. When I looked into this bucket on this day, I saw this beautiful four-eyed turtle inside, dead, white spots all over it. They eventually put this dead animal straight into the bin afterwards.

After that, I never went back to this shop.
 

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