Urgent help required (coiled bulbs & stubborn mum)

[Dan2014]

Hello everyone,

I have come here to try and help my mum and her 2 Tortoises, she recently purchased a Exo Terra Terrarium (90x45x30cm) to house her 2 x 7 year old Tortoises in, they live in the garden during the summer.

The lighting hood for the Terrarium is the Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy which accepts 4 coil bulbs!

Please can someone help and confirm what bulbs she will need to purchase? I have just read that coil bulbs are not ideal for Tortoises so I need to know what bulbs to use so not to harm the Tortoises? I am afraid my mum will rush out and buy bulbs which are too powerful hence why I am asking here.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

She needs to buy TWO separate and much larger enclosures and set them up with all the correct heat lamps and equipment for the species she has.

Here is a horsfield tortoise care sheet. Care will be similar for any of the other common Mediterranean species.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

This might help too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

To recap:
1. Tortoises do not like to be, or do well in pairs.
2. That cage is MUCH too small.
3. Coil type cfl bulbs can damage their eyes and should not be used.

 

[Dan2014]

Hello, Thanks for your help and advice.

The problem is that my mum has had these Tortoises since they were babies, I am aware they should be kept in a larger set up but my mum does not have the space for a larger set up (typical story of someone not doing any research before buying) they do get on fine together and live outside for 6 months of the year. Even worse this Terrarium is 50% larger than what she had before!!! (crazy for 2 Tortoises I know)

To make the best of a not ideal situation I want to help as much as I can, my main issue is trying to resolve is what coil bulbs are least likely to harm her Tortoises, if I go and tell her she should buy a different lighting fixture she will ignore me and go and buy bulbs from a local P&H and likely be given poor advice from unknowledgeable staff.

I myself keep Tropical fish and am a moderator on a fish forum so fully understand why members jump on the defence when they see the animals they love not being kept in the correct conditions, but I really need some sound advice on what bulbs I should recommend otherwise I fear the lighting hood will be crammed with 4 x 23w bulbs which will in turn fry the Tortoises (

Thanks again.

 

[dmmj]

No coil bulbs, can cause blindness, a much bigger enclosure is needed.

 

[Tom]

I can sympathize Dan, but what she has purchased is simply not suitable for its intended purpose. None of the coil type bulbs are safe for use. Even the household ones can do damage. They need an incandescent heat lamp to give them a proper basking area. This simulates the sun for them when indoors.

There is not an easy, "just go buy this..." solution to this problem. To use a fish equivalent analogy. You've got someone trying to house two imperator angels in their 10 gallon "reef" tank with a sponge filter in the corner...

Its just not going to work, and its going to end in disaster. It seems that YOU know what needs to be done, so if mum won't do it, I hope that you will.

Honestly, I know you can relate to this next bit from your aquarium forum experience. If some one doesn't have the time money or space to house their fish correctly, then they should give their fish to someone who does. If mum can't be bothered to do what these living animals needs, then she should see to it that some one else does. I matters not to the tortoises whether mum has the time, space or interest to take care of them properly. They need what they need. And what they need is their own living quarters, enough room to move, and the proper thermal gradients and environmental parameters.

I don't mean to be harsh here. I'm trying to help. The way to help is to get your mum to understand what they need and provide it.

 

[Dan2014]

Cool thanks for the advice,

I am quite sure I won't be able to persuade her to re home them, which in the scheme of things would be best outcome.
Will do my best to convince her to use a different light unit but fear she will just go to P&H and let them do their thing.

Thanks again.

 

[Gillian M]

Hello everyone,

I have come here to try and help my mum and her 2 Tortoises, she recently purchased a Exo Terra Terrarium (90x45x30cm) to house her 2 x 7 year old Tortoises in, they live in the garden during the summer.

The lighting hood for the Terrarium is the Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy which accepts 4 coil bulbs!

Please can someone help and confirm what bulbs she will need to purchase? I have just read that coil bulbs are not ideal for Tortoises so I need to know what bulbs to use so not to harm the Tortoises? I am afraid my mum will rush out and buy bulbs which are too powerful hence why I am asking here.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Tom]

Cool thanks for the advice,

I am quite sure I won't be able to persuade her to re home them, which in the scheme of things would be best outcome.
Will do my best to convince her to use a different light unit but fear she will just go to P&H and let them do their thing.

Thanks again.

I wish you good luck and I hope you are successful.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Dan:

We have a couple of threads telling about the harm that the coil bulbs can do to a tortoise's eyes. Do a search and print out one of them. Maybe reading about it on her own will convince your mum that she's going to harm her tortoises with those bulbs.

Pet stores want to sell stuff. That's why they're in business. They really don't care if its good for the tortoise or not. Being in a too small habitat over the winter isn't ideal, but it's probably not going to harm the tortoises. But the lights will. She needs a Mercury Vapor Bulb. This provides heat and UVB all in one bulb.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. The very large plastic tote box, specially the ones sold to hold articial xmas trees work good for enclousre, are fairly cheap and you can join them together to make an even bigger enclosure. Also, if you take a look at our enclousre section, you will find some easy to build two story enclosures for those that don't have a lot of floor space.
Good luck. Sure hope you can convince her to take care of her torts properly, otherwise, it's animal abuse, that I'm sure she wouldn't do on purpose.

 

[Dan2014]

Hello,

Some good news, I got my mother to read though this thread, first thing she did was get upset as she now knows that the advice she was given when first purchasing the Tortoises was not correct, I did explain that people understand it was not her fault so now things can be put right.

She has 2 Herman Tortoises and they have been together since babies and get along well so that is one issue resolved. I have managed to put together a enclosure made from large plastic crates so now the enclosure is approx 4ft by 5ft.

Now the lighting needs to be sorted, as I am a avid fish keeper I have plenty of spare lighting so need to know if the T5 lighting I have would be suitable to meet the Tortoises UV requirements? The tubes I have are Arcadia 39W (85cm length) Plant Pro, I have 2 new tubes and a twin ballast to power the tubes, first off will these tubes be suitable? and if so would 1 be enough or 2 better?

link to the bulbs I have (first on the list) Bulbs would sit around 15 inches from substrate.

http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/plant-pro-lamp-t5-compact/

Next is to sort out the basking light, as the 2 Tortoises are adult size I assume it would be best so they both can fit under the basking bulb at the same time? again the bulb would sit around 15 inches from substrate level. should I go with a 100w bulb and if so any recommendation on decent bulbs? I know I will have to get a thermometer to make sure the heat level is not to high but just wanted to get a ideal where to start.

Thanks again everyone for the help and advice.

 

[leigti]

I am not familiar with the Arcadia bulbs so I will let a more experienced person talk about that. Look under the lighting section of this forum and there are many threads about them there. As far as a heat bulb you can use a 60 W floodlight, or try the hundred watt regular lightbulb. Get yourself a temperature gun to check thetemperature of the tortoises shell when they sit under the light. They don't need to bask together. I think just about everybody here has been giving bad advice by a pet store, so tell your mom not to worry. I think we all understand. I'm glad the enclosure is bigger, that's great. Put in lots of site barriers and some hides so the tortoises can get away from each other when they want to to prevent problems.and don't forget the pictures when it's all done or if you have more questions

 

[ascott]

What is the UV output on the T5 bulb you have, I looked it up and it only references that it offers good growth results for complex plants? Also, what age is that bulb?

 

[tortadise]

Arcadia bulbs are great.

For your reference here is a pretty recent study done by one member here on the coil bulbs.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/uvb-coil-bulbs-and-keratitis.103186/

 

[Tom]

Plant and fish bulbs will not be suitable. You need bulbs designed to meet the specific UV requirements of reptiles. Arcadia bulbs are great. I like any of the HO type 12% ones.

For your basking spot, yes you need a large basking area. I prefer to use flood bulbs, as these direct the heat and light downward, but still spread it out a fair amount I like to use 65 watt ones and adjust the height to get the right temp. I would hang two of them over one end of the enclosure and adjust the height to get the basking temp at tortoise shell height around 95-100.

 

[THBfriend]

None of the coil type bulbs are safe for use. Even the household ones can do damage.

NO bulbs are safe for use, including UV fluorescent tubes. Even the sun can do damage. - Fixed that for you.

Seriously, now you say that all CFL "coil" lamps can cause eye damage, even the ones meant for visible light and not UV? That's total nonsense.

 

[Tom]

NO bulbs are safe for use, including UV fluorescent tubes. Even the sun can do damage. - Fixed that for you.

Seriously, now you say that all CFL "coil" lamps can cause eye damage, even the ones meant for visible light and not UV? That's total nonsense.

Not only is it not "total non-sense", its not non-sense at all. You need to check your insulting confrontational tone at the door friend.

There have been several studies cited and linked on this forum alone demonstrating harmful UVC rays coming out of regular household cfl bulbs.

Before you go running off at the mouth trying to discredit good advice, you ought to do a little fact checking and researching yourself.

And I don't need you "fixing", or in this case incorrectly altering my statements, either.

 

[THBfriend]

There have been several studies cited and linked on this forum alone demonstrating harmful UVC rays coming out of regular household cfl bulbs.

Those studies have been disputed and their results have been sensationalized by some news media. See the info I cited and linked elsewhere on this forum (ok, because I'm nice: link).
Linear fluorescent tubes emit harmful UVC rays as well (here's an R-Zilla Desert 50 beating several CFLs). As do incandescent lamps. As does fire! But at reasonable distances, the UVC intensity of all these sources is basically insignificant. As I said, if you are as sensitive as you appear to be, then you have to be fair and admit that there is no perfectly safe lamp type. All of them have problems and can cause damage when misused.

I've been using white daylight CFLs for my hatchling box for almost a decade, about 1.5 feet above the substrate. To increase the general brightness (many indoor tortoise lighting set-ups are much too dark). Eye problems so far: Zero.

 

[Tom]

And I've never seen any bulb other than a cfl cause a problem in more than 30 years of doing reptiles of all kinds as a profession.

You can get hung up on your technicalities all you like. I'll keep talking about what actually happens in the real world.

 

[Yvonne G]

Ok...that's enough of that. If you want this thread to be closed to further comments, continue on in this vein.