Ugh is Nelson starting to pyramid?

[ChiKat]

He looks like he's starting to pyramid in these pictures that I just took today. Really not happy! I don't notice it as much in person but with these close-ups it looks to me like a little pyramiding

It looks worse from the side obviously; not noticeable at this angle!

And why is the middle of the scute so bumpy? (The part that has been the same since he was a hatchling.) Is that normal for a Russian?

He is 10-months old and approximately 3 inches SCL.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

He looks good to me, very handsome and alert looking

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I'm with Maggie. All I notice is his captivating face.

 

[Tom]

I don't really see pyramiding. I do see what you are talking about, but I wouldn't call that pyramiding yet. Russians do have a little "rougher" shell texture than some of the other species. Could that be it?

He looks really healthy to me.

 

[GBtortoises]

Russian tortoises usually aren't as prone to pyramiding as much or in the same manner and most other species of tortoise. Unless it is extremely severe case. Their incorrect, or accelerated growth tends to show up more as deformities in other areas of the body. Some place are the edges of carapace (upturned growth), in their nails and beak area.
The little bumps that you see in the middle of the scutes of your tortoise is very normal for young Russians and many other Testudo species.
If anything, he's a bit big for a 10 month old but looks fine.
These are a few photos of some of my young Russians here that are about a year old (2 1/4"). They exhibit the same scute "bumps" as yours. As do all of my young Ibera, Marginateds and Eastern Hermann's some of which are also pictured. it's perfectly normal growth.

 

[ChiKat]

Thank you everyone!! And GBtortoises- big, really?! He's actually underweight.
He barely grew the first few months I had him. He was probably around 2 1/4" when I got him at ~10 weeks!! (Is Nelson on steroids? Am I going to end up with a jumbo Russian?? )
Your torts are gorgeous btw!
Glad to hear the bumpy scutes are normal!

 

[GBtortoises]

Thank you everyone!! And GBtortoises- big, really?! He's actually underweight.
He barely grew the first few months I had him. He was probably around 2 1/4" when I got him at ~10 weeks!! (Is Nelson on steroids? Am I going to end up with a jumbo Russian?? )
Your torts are gorgeous btw!
Glad to hear the bumpy scutes are normal!

Okay, I know this will probably open up a can of worms on this site, but I'm going to say it anyway: I never weight my tortoises, unless it's to determine the amount of medication I need to administer to a sick one.
If you keep a tortoise indoors 24/7/365 days a year it will grow faster than one kept outdoors full time or even just during the summer months. Tortoises kept indoors exhibit a faster growth rate because they are kept warm, fed well and face no diversity all the time. While it may be an easy life for them it is also one that makes them grow faster. These easy conditions, along with a diet far richer in vitamins than they're body is designed to absorb and the constant, additional heat, causes them to grow faster which in turn can lead to deformities if not kept closely in check. Fortunately, they are not always terrible deformities, but sometimes they can be if the pattern is allowed to continue.
A Russian tortoise for example, depending upon native location, spends anywhere from 6-9 months underground because of extreme cold and/or extreme hot conditions. They are at that time very inactive. Now we put them in the "ideal" captive conditions, take away all their hardships and wonder why the subject of pyramiding and other deformities are a never ending topic of conversation.
Without out going on forever, they simply do not (and are not meant to) grow as rapidly. In general (very general) most Northern Mediterranean species and Russians double their birth size in a 12 month period. Obviously there are alot of variables. But if a tortoise is growing much larger than that in the same amount of time or less time it is for all practical purposes growing too fast. If that same pattern continues signs of accelerated growth begin to be obvious.
In short, a 3 year old Russian tortoise should not be adult size like many that I've seen.
Don't panic on my account either. I'm just saying that I'm seeing more and more tortoises that exhibit accelerated growth development and there seems to be a lot of people obsessed with seeing how rapidly they can grow a tortoise. That is not how they grow in the wild and very doubtfully how their bodies are designed to grow. I realize that captive conditions are very different from wild conditions. But I would hope that most people want their tortoise to look the way it is supposed to look naturally, not create a new look "just because they can".
If you must see marked differences to justify keeping them correctly take monthly photos and compare the differences each time so that any out of control growth can be corrected sooner.
I believe in monitoring and controlling their rate of growth which ultimately decides their long term physical appearance.
Your tortoise looks fine, like I said, just a bit bigger than normal for a tortoise of that species that is 10 months old. But that's my opinion based on how I keep mine.
And thank you for the compliment on my tortoises. I strive to grow them as smooth and correct as possible. But don't always notice the results in front of me because I see them every day. It's nice to get a vote of confidence from someone else!

 

[ChiKat]

I have been trying really hard to have him grow slowly. I actually think I unintentionally underfed him the first couple months I had him. It wasn't until I bought a scale that I realized he wasn't really gaining weight, so I started offering him a little more food.
I don't think I have ever overfed him. I have heard the importance of tortoises growing slowly (not as much on this particular forum) and I think I feed him enough every day, but not large amounts of food like I've seen people offer their torts.

To be honest I don't understand why he is already 3 inches SCL! He hasn't gained a lot of weight, but he keeps getting bigger! I don't know how to make him grow any slower

Are you saying it's basically because he has been kept inside?

 

[Candy]

Nelson is the cutest little Russian Tortoise and I know I say this each time I see his picture, but he is just so adorable. His little face just gets to me.

Oh yeah and I don't see any pyramiding.

 

[Tom]

GB, I like this can of worms and I have to agree with you. One factor you didn't mention is how many calories they burn off running around a large area. It is comparable to a parrot that hangs out in a small indoor cage in constant indoor temps verses one that lives outdoors in a large aviary where it flies and has to deal with weather of all kinds. My trained flyers always weigh less than their cage bound cohorts.

I thought he seemed a little big for ten months too, but since my russian experience is limited, I decided not to say it. ALL of my torts grow slow. My buddies Russian hatchling is nearly two and about that size. Most of the Russians I've had were already adults. Most of those were probably wild caught.

If you want him to grow slower, I'd suggest less food and more outdoor exercise. If you are happy with it, continue on. As I said, he looks healthy and bright eyed to me.

 

[GBtortoises]

Roachman-we agree on all counts!

ChiKat: "Are you saying it's basically because he has been kept inside?"-Yes! I've never seen a tortoise that was kept indoors 365 days a year that didn't grow faster than it's outdoor counterparts. It's the tortoises that are kept indoors whose diets (food, supplements & water) and "climate" (heat & humidity) that need to be constantly monitored and and kept in check so as not to create accelerated growth development. Unfortunately, no matter how hard some one tries, indoor tortoises always look different than outdoor tortoises. I've never seen a way to avoid that. I have examples of both here. Indoor tortoises that I've gotten from someone else and my own. The difference is very noticeable.
Obviously, not everyone is in a situation that they can provide outdoor housing for their tortoises either part or full time. But I also believe that tortoises raised exclusively or primarily indoors can be healthy, long lived animals as long as the husbandry methods are kept in check.

Roachman said it best: "If you are happy with it, continue on."

 

[ChiKat]

I know he is probably growing too quickly, but is it possible for some hatchlings to be naturally larger than others? When I got him at 10 weeks he was already almost 2 1/2" (I THOUGHT he was big when I got him )
In pictures of him with the other hatchlings in his clutch he is the biggest one.
I am fortunate that he is very active and has a decent sized enclosure- 4x2'.
I am trying to make him an outdoor pen so he can at least be outside during the day in the summer.

Thank you for all your feedback; I really appreciate it!

 

[GBtortoises]

Most hatchlings from the same clutch will start out at nearly the same size give or take a half dozen millimeters or so! It's not unusual for siblings to grow at different rates either. But for that information to be accurate they would have to be raised side by side in identical conditions. That's is why it's often difficult to judge the growth rate when keeping a single tortoise. Not alot to compare it to except other peoples tortoises and then there are lots of variables that end up making the comparison information invaluable. That is one reason I do not rely on weight as a form of growth measurement.

 

[-ryan-]

Most of my russians have grown quicker than they should because I feed them a bit too much and keep them indoors essentially all year round. Mind don't exhibit the pyramiding associated with rapid growth (because they have micro-climates) though I do know that they have grown much quicker than they should have and I have been working on slow-growing the latest ones.

I have noticed, however, a variation in growth when under the exact same conditions even with hatchlings from the same clutch. It does have a lot to do with how they are started because that can set the pace. I have had a clutch where the hatchlings grew so similarly that they were almost indistinguishable even after over a month, and I have had a clutch that did the exact opposite, where one stayed small and the other grew rapidly, even though they weren't competing for food (they were in the same enclosure, with a divider). I kept the runt and he is still growing comparatively slowly (a good thing). I have a hatchling right now that is about a month old that I need to find a home for and he hasn't grown as much as others I have had yet he is in the same enclosure and eats like a pig. For the record, I am not sure if that last one came from the same female as the others, but it's an interesting thing to witness. If I had the space, time, and money, it would be interesting to setup an experiment to see how much their growth rates naturally differ.