Too much humidity and reversed pyramiding?

[Yvonne G]

True dat, Kyle!

 

[TommyZ]

Hello just last week I posted a similar thread for everyone to look at my tortoise shell I also have reversed pyramyding. It was explained to me that those raised lines are actually healthy growth which is a result of a well hydrated tortoise it was explained to me that if you left him out and dry for a couple of days those lines would recede a little bit. Take a look here mine look the same.


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[harris]

True dat, Kyle!

Oh man, that made me laugh!!

 

[Tom]

True dat, Kyle!

Oh man, that made me laugh!!

HA! Me too. Totally unexpected...

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Hello just last week I posted a similar thread for everyone to look at my tortoise shell I also have reversed pyramyding. It was explained to me that those raised lines are actually healthy growth which is a result of a well hydrated tortoise it was explained to me that if you left him out and dry for a couple of days those lines would recede a little bit. Take a look here mine look the same.


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TommyZ, The Manouria genus is very unique and very unlike most other tortoises in many ways. Their shells are not like that of a RF or sulcata.


Vic, Will and Yvonne, I can't thank you all enough for sharing your copious experience with this species, and genus, with us. Please continue.

 

[Yvonne G]

(And my sister says I have no sense of humor! PH-T-t-t-t-t!!)

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

mikeh, I did read this in your first post "They also spend few hours outside couple times a week."

I have a heightened critical eye for things manouria. A former work place supervisor was the first to breed them (globally). Phae, the mother of the hatchlings I am now rearing was born at the Honolulu Zoo under his curatorship.

During the day for about an hour I open all my closed chambers and both the back door and front door are opened and a usual ocean source breeze comes through my apartment. I'd love to have ground space again, maybe 50 acres would do me just fine.

So back on point, do you recall the source of the idea that Manouria have a different elimination system such that they would not produce urates.

I don't take that all to serious, as the leopards I am growing-out right now do not produce any and their protein intake would make many folks here sorta double over with worry. (I consulted a global authority on tortoise nutrition about what I am doing with diet).

Keep that long fiber up and good hydration and "protein" is not an issue, but that is for another thread.

Please tell about the urate solids issue with Manouria if you recall.

Will

 

[Tom]

Keep that long fiber up and good hydration and "protein" is not an issue, but that is for another thread.

Sorry to go off topic, but that is a thread I look forward to!

 

[mikeh]

Will,

I do try to get them out as much as possible, given the temps are high enough and humidity above 50% or so. I noticed when humidity is low, let's say 30% their eyes start to water, maybe perhaps in drastic change coming out from such humid chamber.

I have done so much reading, I am not sure at the moment what source I read about the urates not passing in same manner as let's say leopards, but for that exact reason it stuck in my head. I can only say that so far I have never seen them pass urates. The one time I seen was what I described earlier, what looked like the crush egg shells I fed them with food day or two or three prior. Now that I think of it, it looked exactly like finely crushed egg shells that were put in tgeir food, not paste like, even the color was white and brown, and yes they were brown eggs shells. So that's still a mystery what it actually was.

I will look try to look up the urates source later
BTW, my 3 month old Leo that I acquired from Chubbs Leopards, pees good amount and its always clear as well without any urates.

Mike.

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50 acres eh? Will, are you sure that would be enough?

 

[emysbreeder]

That's extreme, to say they are being killed in a chamber.

The "tom" closed chamber system includes a full air exchange and time outside the chamber, in fresh air and sun.

It's not a closed system in the sense of one of those glass balls with algae and tiny shrimp, or even what aquarist call "closed system".

The closed chambers mentioned so frequently here on TFO, regard maintaining high humidity, not a lack of air exchange.

The individuals shown by the primary poster look good, even the scales on the front legs are normal.

Will

..........Will, The term "kill" in herpetculture vocabulary is commonly used and does not imply any disrespect. Zoo keepers i met many, many, light years ago when i was new at keeping herps used this fraze and I too was kinda shocked about it. I could not tell by the pic if there was a air-flow system. Sorry, "he's just an exsightatable boy"*w.zevone. emysbreeder

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The shell growth you call reversed pyramiding is normal. But you are going to kill them with that "closed chamber" They do need high humidity but it must have an air exchange. It still needs to have air flow. Change that quick! Vic

Thank for the input Vic! There are plenty of gaps between the plexi for fresh air, there is also small computer fan along the ceiling circulating the air inside.
The scales in the front feet are a concern from what I read, but so far they are all pointing nicely flat down even though they seem on the long side.

A lot of folks are now interested in finding out what causes this front leg scale lifting. vic

 

[mikeh]

Re: RE: Too much humidity and reversed pyramiding?

That's extreme, to say they are being killed in a chamber.

The "tom" closed chamber system includes a full air exchange and time outside the chamber, in fresh air and sun.

It's not a closed system in the sense of one of those glass balls with algae and tiny shrimp, or even what aquarist call "closed system".

The closed chambers mentioned so frequently here on TFO, regard maintaining high humidity, not a lack of air exchange.

The individuals shown by the primary poster look good, even the scales on the front legs are normal.

Will

..........Will, The term "kill" in herpetculture vocabulary is commonly used and does not imply any disrespect. Zoo keepers i met many, many, light years ago when i was new at keeping herps used this fraze and I too was kinda shocked about it. I could not tell by the pic if there was a air-flow system. Sorry, "he's just an exsightatable boy"*w.zevone. emysbreeder

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The shell growth you call reversed pyramiding is normal. But you are going to kill them with that "closed chamber" They do need high humidity but it must have an air exchange. It still needs to have air flow. Change that quick! Vic

Thank for the input Vic! There are plenty of gaps between the plexi for fresh air, there is also small computer fan along the ceiling circulating the air inside.
The scales in the front feet are a concern from what I read, but so far they are all pointing nicely flat down even though they seem on the long side.

A lot of folks are now interested in finding out what causes this front leg scale lifting. vic

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I didn't take any offense to it. Any comments are appreciated. It did make me double check the air exchange.

I can see how the picture gives impression of no air exchange with all the condensation on plexi. This is due the chamber being in cool 70F dry basement. The big temp. difference between inside/outside and high humidity keeps constant heavy condensation on the inside of plexi. This condensation effect also aides greatly in removing carbon dioxide inside the chamber.
Mike

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[emysbreeder]

That's extreme, to say they are being killed in a chamber.

The "tom" closed chamber system includes a full air exchange and time outside the chamber, in fresh air and sun.

It's not a closed system in the sense of one of those glass balls with algae and tiny shrimp, or even what aquarist call "closed system".

The closed chambers mentioned so frequently here on TFO, regard maintaining high humidity, not a lack of air exchange.

The individuals shown by the primary poster look good, even the scales on the front legs are normal.

Will

..........Will, The term "kill" in herpetculture vocabulary is commonly used and does not imply any disrespect. Zoo keepers i met many, many, light years ago when i was new at keeping herps used this fraze and I too was kinda shocked about it. I could not tell by the pic if there was a air-flow system. Sorry, "he's just an exsightatable boy"*w.zevone. emysbreeder

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The shell growth you call reversed pyramiding is normal. But you are going to kill them with that "closed chamber" They do need high humidity but it must have an air exchange. It still needs to have air flow. Change that quick! Vic

Thank for the input Vic! There are plenty of gaps between the plexi for fresh air, there is also small computer fan along the ceiling circulating the air inside.
The scales in the front feet are a concern from what I read, but so far they are all pointing nicely flat down even though they seem on the long side.

A lot of folks are now interested in finding out what causes this front leg scale lifting. vic

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I didn't take any offense to it. Any comments are appreciated. It did make me double check the air exchange.

I can see how the picture gives impression of no air exchange with all the condensation on plexi. This is due the chamber being in cool 70F dry basement. The big temp. difference between inside/outside and high humidity keeps constant heavy condensation on the inside of plexi. This condensation effect also aides greatly in removing carbon dioxide inside the chamber.
Mike

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........ Thanks, I was on my way out the door to the Daytona Expo! Vic

 

[mikeh]

Will, here is the source on Manouria not excreting uric acid in same matter as other tortoises.

Eggenschwiler, U. 2003. Manouria emys phayrei: Success at keeping and breeding the little-known Burmese Brown Tortoise. Reptilia 29: 43-50.



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This also could explain the strong urine odor.

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