To anyone reading, @dd33 is a personal friend of mine, very knowledgeable about tortoises and tortoise care, and a good person. I've talked to him in private about this thread. I wanted full disclosure before making my points here.
@dd33 is basing his opinions stated here on his group of 3 aldabras. He's never kept them in a pair, and prior to these three young juveniles, whose growth has been graciously shared here on the forum, he has not kept this species.
I will agree that Aldabra are less combative than most other species, but we are not talking about combat. We are talking about the more subtle behaviors that are often not noticed by most people. The exact observations that @Maggie3fan shared above of her sister's pair of aldabras, which I also had the privilege and pleasure of meeting and visiting with a few times over the years. I noted the same things Maggie observed, and I have noted those same things with many other pairs with many other tortoise keepers. While I have not made this particular mistake with Aldabras, I have, in the past, made it with other species. dd33 is keeping a group, not a pair, and his group lives in a giant pen, on grass, in an idyllic environment for the species. Of course his animals get along and don't exhibit the problems we are talking about. He sets an example of how to do it all correctly, and avoid these very problems that occur with paired animals, in small enclosure, fed a poor diet, and kept in a not so great climate for them.
I also whole-heartedly agree with @Markw84 and his observations of group dynamics with both of the island giant species. I think these group dynamics also apply to hermanni, red foots, yellow foots, pancakes, greeks, and both star species. For years I've been raising all the species I keep in groups, and the behavior is certainly different than singles.
My main point here is that just because these animals seem to live communally and spend time near each other in the wild, for one reason or another, this does not translate to them doing well in PAIRS in captivity. Groups are not the problem. Interaction with their own species in groups is usually not a problem until you start getting into multiple adult males with some species. PAIRS are a problem, and as seen with Maggie's brilliantly explained example, and countless other examples I have personally seen, Aldabras are NOT an exception.
@dd33 is basing his opinions stated here on his group of 3 aldabras. He's never kept them in a pair, and prior to these three young juveniles, whose growth has been graciously shared here on the forum, he has not kept this species.
I will agree that Aldabra are less combative than most other species, but we are not talking about combat. We are talking about the more subtle behaviors that are often not noticed by most people. The exact observations that @Maggie3fan shared above of her sister's pair of aldabras, which I also had the privilege and pleasure of meeting and visiting with a few times over the years. I noted the same things Maggie observed, and I have noted those same things with many other pairs with many other tortoise keepers. While I have not made this particular mistake with Aldabras, I have, in the past, made it with other species. dd33 is keeping a group, not a pair, and his group lives in a giant pen, on grass, in an idyllic environment for the species. Of course his animals get along and don't exhibit the problems we are talking about. He sets an example of how to do it all correctly, and avoid these very problems that occur with paired animals, in small enclosure, fed a poor diet, and kept in a not so great climate for them.
I also whole-heartedly agree with @Markw84 and his observations of group dynamics with both of the island giant species. I think these group dynamics also apply to hermanni, red foots, yellow foots, pancakes, greeks, and both star species. For years I've been raising all the species I keep in groups, and the behavior is certainly different than singles.
My main point here is that just because these animals seem to live communally and spend time near each other in the wild, for one reason or another, this does not translate to them doing well in PAIRS in captivity. Groups are not the problem. Interaction with their own species in groups is usually not a problem until you start getting into multiple adult males with some species. PAIRS are a problem, and as seen with Maggie's brilliantly explained example, and countless other examples I have personally seen, Aldabras are NOT an exception.
