Overall Appearance

[Yellow Turtle01]

To me it looks like most of the captive bred torts are much light in color. Anyone else notice that? I'm sure age plays a big roll since the cb torts are
Probably much younger

Maybe being outdoors in wild causes their shells to become darker. I mean, bright yellow isn't very good camouflage!

 

[Shakudo]

This is a beauty!>!>!>!

Thank you))))

 

[Shakudo]

Wow, her colors are gorgeous! She look much smoother than many adult russian tort's that I've seen in pictures! She is SO yellow! You have a beautiful tortoise.

Thank you))) She is estimated between 3 to 4 years I love her very much!

 

[Yvonne G]

I've never been to or seen pictures of the land where Russian tortoises live, but my guess would be it is very rough, rocky, desolate and hard ground. I would love to see a native russian before capture, but my guess is that all the scratches, scars, nicks and cuts on wc Russians occur during capture, holding and shipping. CB Russians have very pretty shells, and even when they are mature, you can still tell a cb from a wc. We give them a much better life than what they come from.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

http://www.arkive.org/afghan-tortoise/testudo-horsfieldii/image-G22569.html
There are some picture of wild torts on that page, @Yvonne G
They live in a harsh environment in the wild, and I agree, I think it shows just in the way they are colored, to some degree.

 

[FLINTUS]

Maybe being outdoors in wild causes their shells to become darker. I mean, bright yellow isn't very good camouflage!

The lighter color is generally due to the faster-IMO, too fast- growth that most Russians have in captivity. Have a look at a keeper who hibernates their tortoise and aestivates or slows it down in the summer-not possible unless you live in a very warm climate though- and you will see more similar growth to wild Russians. Also remember that there are different subspecies of Russians, it may be the case that what is now coming into the US are different localities from ones from 20-30 years ago.

I've never been to or seen pictures of the land where Russian tortoises live, but my guess would be it is very rough, rocky, desolate and hard ground. I would love to see a native russian before capture, but my guess is that all the scratches, scars, nicks and cuts on wc Russians occur during capture, holding and shipping. CB Russians have very pretty shells, and even when they are mature, you can still tell a cb from a wc. We give them a much better life than what they come from.

There are some photos around of the Steppe with wild Russians, a few Google searches brings up a good number of results. I would disagree about the 'scars', I would say that these have been caused by rocks in the natural landscape and the erosion and weathering of the shells.

 

[Shakudo]

The lighter color is generally due to the faster-IMO, too fast- growth that most Russians have in captivity. Have a look at a keeper who hibernates their tortoise and aestivates or slows it down in the summer-not possible unless you live in a very warm climate though- and you will see more similar growth to wild Russians. Also remember that there are different subspecies of Russians, it may be the case that what is now coming into the US are different localities from ones from 20-30 years ago

My tortoise has normal growth and has high yellows, and I have seen many different varieties in color.
So I do not agree with your opinion of color relating to too fast growing. I consider my own tortoise tangible evidence for that.

I believe color is genetically predispositioned , but color can be influenced by weather conditions, and other environmental factors. I believe that shells from wc animals can be rougher in color and texture because they have been through, perhaps very harsh conditions in their native environement.

My theory is that in captivity such "erosion" is nearly excluded, so shells have the opportunity to thrive and look, perhaps very different from their wc fellow Russians.


Joey

 

[Magilla504]

In the archive pics posted. I notice that they all were dark or have that dusty look. Didn't notice any that were very light. I'm sure the sand and constant sunlight have a lot to do with it. Also, in captivity we have the chance to feed our torts a nutritionally balanced meal. All of these things I would guess has a lot to do with it

 

[Shakudo]

In the archive pics posted. I notice that they all were dark or have that dusty look. Didn't notice any that were very light. I'm sure the sand and constant sunlight have a lot to do with it. Also, in captivity we have the chance to feed our torts a nutritionally balanced meal. All of these things I would guess has a lot to do with it

Yes nutrition is also a good suggestion.

 

[FLINTUS]

My tortoise has normal growth and has high yellows, and I have seen many different varieties in color.
So I do not agree with your opinion of color relating to too fast growing. I consider my own tortoise tangible evidence for that.

I believe color is genetically predispositioned , but color can be influenced by weather conditions, and other environmental factors. I believe that shells from wc animals can be rougher in color and texture because they have been through, perhaps very harsh conditions in their native environement.

My theory is that in captivity such "erosion" is nearly excluded, so shells have the opportunity to thrive and look, perhaps very different from their wc fellow Russians.


Joey

Normal growth for captivity or normal growth in the wild? There is a huge difference here, and very, very few Russians in captivity are growing at similar rates to their wild counterparts. Look at a freshly WC Russian, and then look as the growth lines get thicker and closer together as they grow faster in captivity. Then, look at how the color of the shell has changed, and I believe that sums it up quite nicely for the vast majority of Russians.
Not that genetics and subspecies-although there are very few locality and subspecies specific groups in captivity as far as I'm aware- won't have a part to play, but if it was mainly genetics then we would still see some of these lighter ones in the wild and some of the darker ones in captivity. I do agree about erosion and weathering of the shell, but this should, in theory, just keep the shell 'sanded' down, with a few dents from rocks etc.

I think I read that they develop darker colors as they grow to better enhance their ability to use sunlight, i.e., they are in need of MORE sunlight/UVB versus one who gets enough or more than enough and retains more yellow. It seems logical, but I cannot remember where I read it, so it's veracity is unknowable lol

This seems to work different ways in different species. Based on what I've seen:
Sulcatas get darker with less sunlight, as do Aldabras and Western Hingebacks.
Leopards, Red Foots, and Erosas all tend to get lighter without sun light.
Those are just 6 species which I've seen a few times when raised in low light levels with a noticeable change in color. However, I wouldn't think there is a huge difference in UV light aside from the southern States compared to the Steppe. For instance, Bishkek has a very similar UV index to Nebraska.

 

[Shakudo]

Normal growth for captivity or normal growth in the wild? There is a huge difference here, and very, very few Russians in captivity are growing at similar rates to their wild counterparts. Look at a freshly WC Russian, and then look as the growth lines get thicker and closer together as they grow faster in captivity. Then, look at how the color of the shell has changed, and I believe that sums it up quite nicely for the vast majority of Russians.
Not that genetics and subspecies-although there are very few locality and subspecies specific groups in captivity as far as I'm aware- won't have a part to play, but if it was mainly genetics then we would still see some of these lighter ones in the wild and some of the darker ones in captivity. I do agree about erosion and weathering of the shell, but this should, in theory, just keep the shell 'sanded' down, with a few dents from rocks etc.

What do you consider normal growth?

I understand it's logical to assume that wc have a different growth pattern that cb. Seeing various factors like f.e. food and availability.

What I could imagine is that when producing new growth lines in captivity they in turn could be lighter, and not being exposed to other external factors in captivity, the new growth wouldn't discolor as they would in the wild. Therefore slowly giving the tortoise a lighter shell

However, if you claim too fast growth is the origin of lighter color. It would only mean that the animal would turn lighter faster because they grow anyway. Making saying "too fast" irrelevant as an origin only a contributor.

I still believe genetics and conditions determine color and not the rate of growth.

But of course, if you have any proof I am open to it. I am very interested.

For example my tortoise has displayed a "normal" growth/weight pattern if you, for example take the McIntyre ratio for Horsfields, as a *guideline*. And I most certainly prevent overfeeding with my feeding schedule which is irregular in both interval and quantity.

And she still is high yellow, not displaying any of the common visible signs seen with too fast growth like pyramiding or other health related issues. And she has been growing normal for the last 3 years and was purchased as I was told from a very young age.

I say specifically guideline there with the McIntyre ratio, because I understood the study was done on a select group of wc Russian tortoises So to say it would be irrefutable, would be a bit much for my taste.

I have seen many Russians that grew (too) fast in media and literature that were adults already and remained their dark appearance. I am not convinced about it being related to too fast growth. However growth as a contributor, not an origin, I find more plausible. But that is my opinion.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

In the archive pics posted. I notice that they all were dark or have that dusty look. Didn't notice any that were very light. I'm sure the sand and constant sunlight have a lot to do with it. Also, in captivity we have the chance to feed our torts a nutritionally balanced meal. All of these things I would guess has a lot to do with it

I like watching documentaries (very informal!) and one time there was one on the Russian Ural mountain range, and the territories on either side of it. It makes certain areas of land very dry and dusty, and russian torts inhabit areas like this. There are also russians that live on the side, where everything is lush and green.
Color in the wild probably depends on where the tort came from... the torts from the wet and green area have more acess to good food, causing them to grow faster, which can produce lighter colors. You're right, though, wild russians might have scarce pickings, and the conditions are harsh.