Opinions on IDing this subspecies

[ajlec2000]

I decided sometime ago that I would relive my childhood a bit by keeping a box turtle or two. I intended to get an EBT. I came upon this guy and was concerned for his welfare. Since I had everything ready for a turtle I bought and brought him home.
He's a big one at 6.5 inches SCL and 611 grams on the vet's scale. This along with some prominent flaring of the carapace began to make wonder me wonder if he is not a Gulf Coast. After a lot of time on line searching for pictures and info I am no more certain about his identification.
I want to breed him but I am not so sure I want to cross subspecies. IDing him is important to me so opinions would be appreciated.

 

[fbsmith3]

I have only known Eastern Box Turtles and Three Toed box turtles, but I read a lot about them. At first guess I'd say a Gulf Coast Box Turtle (Terrapene carolina major). I'm sure others who know Guld Coast, hybrids and other North American Box Turtles will be better at ID's.

 

[Yvonne G]

No, not a gulf coast. They're brown and very similar-looking to a 3-toe. I'm guessing a cross between an ornate and an eastern. The first picture looks like an ornate, but in the second picture he looks like an eastern.

 

[fbsmith3]

Your right no way its a Gulf Coast, but I do think it's some kind of hybrid Box Turtle.

 

[Tccarolina]

My guess would be a big eastern. It doesn't look captive bred, and easterns often have flat, flared shells. And they can get even bigger, especially in the north.
On the other hand, gulf coasts can be super colorful to drab brown. What state are you in?

Steve

 

[ajlec2000]

I'm in Washington State. He was purchased at a store. He was in a bin containing a mixture of Easterns, Three toes and what looked like Ornates. Some could have been Gulf Coast. I was assured they were all captive bred. I have my doubts.

 

[Turtle Guru]

I'm bordering a eastern box turtle , he looks similar to mine

 

[yagyujubei]

I'm going to say Gulf Coast.

 

[fbsmith3]

I reviewed several books and internet sites. I have determined it is definitively an American Box Turtle (Terrapene carolina), besides that it's up in the air. Identification of box turtles species is very weird. Makes me think there are a lot of wild hybrids along with the created hybrids.

If it has 3 back toes on it's back foot, you can call it a Three toed box turtle.

 

[EricIvins]

If it's from where I think its from, it's an Eastern of South Carolina origin...........

 

[Tccarolina]

Did you buy him from Nate Swanson (sp?) of Swanee's Exotics? If so, than it's still up in the air, other than it's for sure wild-caught. He sold some of the most amazing Gulf Coasts I've ever seen at the reptile expo in San Francisco a couple years ago. They rivaled high color easterns and were huge!
I'm less sure now. It might be a gulf coast. It looks 100% eastern, except for it's half an inch bigger than the vast majority of easterns. I don't see anything that would make me think 'hybrid', though.

Steve

 

[Neal]

My vote is eastern because of his face, but I could see how it can go either way. He's probably in the 30+ year old range.

 

[yagyujubei]

How about a profile head shot?

 

[Saloli]

I think he may be an intergrade from georgia or southern s.c. I say this as he has coloring simalar to T.c. carolina, though the lines are more typical of T.c. bauri, and the flaring seems like T.c. major (putnami). Though with out measurements, and local it would be really hard to say for sure, DNA testing would help but we don't have much data on genetic diversity of Terrapene species in general.

 

[ajlec2000]

Ok, this is the best I've got of him at the moment.

I'll try again tomorrow when the light is good.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

My opinion is that he is an Eastern. Easterns can have flared shells like that. Gulf coast boxies (black phase) can look similar, but the markings are not the same. His face is not the face of a gulfie either. I keep some of each sub species - and this one looks a lot like my male as well. By the way - he is beautiful!

 

[terryo]

Loks like a very nice looking male Eastern Box turtle to me.

This is my Gulf Coast.

 

[jackrat]

I would have to say Eastern also. Very nice one.

 

[ajlec2000]

Thanks gang. He is a beauty. i'm going to happily resign myself to referring to him as a Terrapene carolina sp. as I am enjoying him regardless.

 

[nikki0601]

He is an eastern box turtle, ours here in Florida look just like that, little less coloring than other easterns but still so beautiful.. R u in Florida?

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Heres a pic of an Eastern Boxie I rehabed for a bit, I didn't know what his species was but the vet said eastern box and I confirmed it with some research, thats when I read Florida Eastern Boxies dont have the coloring some others do, not on the carpase anyway, dont know how true it is, anyway, he looks very similar to yours, I miss this guy