Newbie looking for advice on conflicting information

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Hi everyone! I recently bought a Hermann tortoise (hatched Nov-23) from an experienced, licenced seller and I have followed the care sheets provided, the tortoise seems happy and healthy. I posted a photo of Shelly on a social media channel and it seemed to have picked up a bit of attention from others telling me that the Repti-turf substrate is not suitable, the tortoise looks dry and is pyramiding, which I don't believe is true as I bathe and provide clean water daily. I currently have Shelly in an open top table, when the weather is warm enough outside I have put them outside in a safe enclosure but have only done this on very warm days. For info I am in the UK. I have added photos of the set up and photos of Shelly. I would appreciate some advice as I want to provide the best care for my pet. Thanks!

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Most of the info found online is old and wrong. The same wrong info have been passed down from generation to generation and decades have now gone by with the wrong info being repeated year after year.

Here is the correct care info. Pay attention to the heating and lighting breakdown near the bottom and the substrate info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Dry substrate and desiccating mercury vapor bulbs will both cause pyramiding.

I hope we can help you make sense of it all. Please feel free to ask questions about the conflicting info. Feel free to argue your points here. We have respectful disagreements here and we simply converse and share our points of view. We will explain our assertions about tortoise care and how we reached those conclusions. We can also explain why the old info that is everywhere is wrong. The info is yours for the asking.

 

[wellington]

That is incorrect substrate, pellets or carpet is not in the wild and should not be used.
Orchid bark,fir bark or coconut coir should be used.
An adult can live in a table but with either a humid hide or better 30-50% humidity in the entire enclosure. Babies need a closed chamber with 80% humidity.
I don't see any pyramiding yet

 

[Maggie3fan]

The substrate can cause "splay leg" to growing tortoises. You should use fine grade orchid bark...one of our UK members will tell you what it's called there, and where to get it. You should have a soaking/drinking pool, I don't see water at all. Your tortoise needs humidity which will cause mold in those pellets...He should have about 80% humidity...read those care sheets from Tom...welcome

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Hello and welcome.

Most of the info found online is old and wrong. The same wrong info have been passed down from generation to generation and decades have now gone by with the wrong info being repeated year after year.

Here is the correct care info. Pay attention to the heating and lighting breakdown near the bottom and the substrate info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Dry substrate and desiccating mercury vapor bulbs will both cause pyramiding.

I hope we can help you make sense of it all. Please feel free to ask questions about the conflicting info. Feel free to argue your points here. We have respectful disagreements here and we simply converse and share our points of view. We will explain our assertions about tortoise care and how we reached those conclusions. We can also explain why the old info that is everywhere is wrong. The info is yours for the asking.

Thank you, I really appreciate your response. As my tortoise is only 7 months old, would you recommend still soaking daily? What do you think is the best substrate for my hermann tortoise if repti-bark is not suitable? The bulb I have at the moment is the Ledivion D3 UV Basking Lamp 80 Watt, is this best suited? Thank you

 

[Tom]

Thank you, I really appreciate your response. As my tortoise is only 7 months old, would you recommend still soaking daily? What do you think is the best substrate for my hermann tortoise if repti-bark is not suitable? The bulb I have at the moment is the Ledivion D3 UV Basking Lamp 80 Watt, is this best suited? Thank you

I recommend daily soaks until they reach 100 grams. At that point, I begin skipping days now and then, and tapering down to twice a week for adults. Dehydration is probably the number one killer of tortoises. Soaking twice a week will keep any adult tortoise healthy and well hydrated.

I like damp, hand packed, coco coir for baby Testudo tortoises, and I prefer orchid bark for adults and all other species.

No, that bulb is not best suited. It is a mercury vapor bulb. In addition to unreliable UV levels, those types of bulbs caused pyramiding.

Read through the link I left at least twice. You'll see all the substrate and lighting info there. Its all explained in detail. There is also a link to the temperate species care sheet near the bottom. Questions are welcome.

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Thank you

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Orchid bark,fir bark or coconut coir are all good substrate for Hermans. I would still recommend daily soaks and a closed chamber enclosure to provide better humidity. On top of the soaks you should add a plant saucer as a water dish so the tortoise always has water available. There is no pyramiding yet, but you should change your set up to prevent it.

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Thank you! If possible, could you send me a link to the orchard and fir bark you speak of?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you! If possible, could you send me a link to the orchard and fir bark you speak of?

You can check Swell Reptiles online shop. They have suitable substrates under their own brand, cheaper than Repti-bark, for example. As far as I know (I'm not in UK), Swell's orchid bark is rather coarse and may be uncomfortable for a baby tortoise to walk on. Check if you can find coco coir bricks there (soil-like crushed coconut shells).

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

The substrate can cause "splay leg" to growing tortoises. You should use fine grade orchid bark...one of our UK members will tell you what it's called there, and where to get it. You should have a soaking/drinking pool, I don't see water at all. Your tortoise needs humidity which will cause mold in those pellets...He should have about 80% humidity...read those care sheets from Tom...welcome

Hi and thank you, there is a shallow soaking pool for the tortoise and I also soak daily in a dish. Will look to change the substrate, thanks

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Thank you! If possible, could you send me a link to the orchard and fir bark you speak of?

This is one example: https://www.orchids.uk.com/Orchid-Potting-Bark-Medium-60L-Large-Bag You might even find this from your local gardening stores. Just look for some that isn't fertilized or treated with pesticides.

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

You can check Swell Reptiles online shop. They have suitable substrates under their own brand, cheaper than Repti-bark, for example. As far as I know (I'm not in UK), Swell's orchid bark is rather coarse and may be uncomfortable for a baby tortoise to walk on. Check if you can find coco coir bricks there (soil-like crushed coconut shells).

I can see that they do a Premium Orchard Bark Fine, would this be best suited for a young tort?

 

[Tom]

I can see that they do a Premium Orchard Bark Fine, would this be best suited for a young tort?

Take a moment to read the link in post number two. You'll have a much better understanding of everything after that.

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Take a moment to read the link in post number two. You'll have a much better understanding of everything after that.

Hi Tom, I have read through again - with the bulbs, can you suggest which wattage i need? Also, the setup I have currently only supports a screw bulb, not a tube.
Thanks

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi Tom, I have read through again - with the bulbs, can you suggest which wattage i need? Also, the setup I have currently only supports a screw bulb, not a tube.
Thanks

It depends on the a few factors (room temperatures, lamp type - directed flood lamp or "pear-shaped", the dome in use). 75W is a middle-ground (you may move it up and down to achieve basking zone size and temperatures), but only thermometer will tell if you need lower or higher wattage.

You need to make a small frame for the tube lamp fixture - out of wood planks or PVC pipes, for example. Or to use a pair of lamp stands with hooks. If you are making a frame, leave some room for height adjustment - between 24 and 16 inches above substrate, approximately (hang the lamp fixture on chains or metallic cords).

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom, I have read through again - with the bulbs, can you suggest which wattage i need? Also, the setup I have currently only supports a screw bulb, not a tube.
Thanks

Only your thermometer can tell you definitively what wattage you need, but I usually go around 65 watts to start with. In a large open table in a cold room, you might need more. In a small viv for a little baby tortoise, you might need less. Looking at your set up, I would go with ether a 75 or 100 watt as a starting point.

You will need to get the Arcadia 12% ProT5 kit for UV. It is the tube, fixture and reflector all in one package, and it is the best. It will last for years.

You also need to add ambient lighting and possibly ambient heat depending on the room temperature in that room. There are four elements to heating and lighting. Your single screw-in type fixture only accounts for one of the four. In a cold clammy climate, you will need to take extra care to ensure that the indoor enclosure is "bright and sunny" just like the Mediterranean type environment your tortoise comes from. It will be important that it is not dimly lit during the day, and you need that mid day high UV level, not all day UV like what is produced by your current bulb. There is no UV in the morning or evening sun outdoors. Just light and heat. That is the reason for the recommendation of only running UV for a few hours mid day, and also the reason why you need additional bright LED lighting all day long when the UV is off.

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Only your thermometer can tell you definitively what wattage you need, but I usually go around 65 watts to start with. In a large open table in a cold room, you might need more. In a small viv for a little baby tortoise, you might need less. Looking at your set up, I would go with ether a 75 or 100 watt as a starting point.

You will need to get the Arcadia 12% ProT5 kit for UV. It is the tube, fixture and reflector all in one package, and it is the best. It will last for years.

You also need to add ambient lighting and possibly ambient heat depending on the room temperature in that room. There are four elements to heating and lighting. Your single screw-in type fixture only accounts for one of the four. In a cold clammy climate, you will need to take extra care to ensure that the indoor enclosure is "bright and sunny" just like the Mediterranean type environment your tortoise comes from. It will be important that it is not dimly lit during the day, and you need that mid day high UV level, not all day UV like what is produced by your current bulb. There is no UV in the morning or evening sun outdoors. Just light and heat. That is the reason for the recommendation of only running UV for a few hours mid day, and also the reason why you need additional bright LED lighting all day long when the UV is off.

That's really useful, thank you

 

[OnHisShellHeHoldsTheEarth]

Only your thermometer can tell you definitively what wattage you need, but I usually go around 65 watts to start with. In a large open table in a cold room, you might need more. In a small viv for a little baby tortoise, you might need less. Looking at your set up, I would go with ether a 75 or 100 watt as a starting point.

You will need to get the Arcadia 12% ProT5 kit for UV. It is the tube, fixture and reflector all in one package, and it is the best. It will last for years.

You also need to add ambient lighting and possibly ambient heat depending on the room temperature in that room. There are four elements to heating and lighting. Your single screw-in type fixture only accounts for one of the four. In a cold clammy climate, you will need to take extra care to ensure that the indoor enclosure is "bright and sunny" just like the Mediterranean type environment your tortoise comes from. It will be important that it is not dimly lit during the day, and you need that mid day high UV level, not all day UV like what is produced by your current bulb. There is no UV in the morning or evening sun outdoors. Just light and heat. That is the reason for the recommendation of only running UV for a few hours mid day, and also the reason why you need additional bright LED lighting all day long when the UV is off.

Hi, Thank you. So if I purchase the ProT5 kit, what will I need for the other three elements? I'm new to this so please explain like I'm 5!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Other three:

1. Basking zone lamp. Like a patch of summer sun. Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight, 75W.
2. Opposite to basking zone you need to keep stable moderate temperature day and night. So you need a heater without light. Ceramic heat emitter (aka CHE, looks like hybrid of lamp and snail) in a wide lampshade with ceramic socket and a thermostat (ProRep and Arcadia Ceramic heat emitters are good, Habistat thermostats are reliable - like this: https://habistat.com/product-details/thermostats/temperature-thermostat). 75-100W CHE will be fine, thermostat will turn it on and off when needed.
3. Ambient lights - just bright daylight LED bulb or strip (undercabinet lights). Good for live plants and hints the tortoise that it's a long summer day, no need to hibernate.

And get two timer sockets:
1. 12 hours timer for basking bulb and ambient lights.
2. 4 hours timer around midday for the UVB lamp (look at hourly UV index in the weather forecast to get an idea why and when)

Maybe, it's easier to think of them like of a desk lamp, room heater and ceiling lights.

I hope, it was easy enough. If not - ask more.