New to cherry heads. Babies might have shell rot?

[Pearly]

I'll tell you, you have got THE CUTEST Cherryheads!!! What are their names? View attachment 162116 this is my grand-cherry-tort-boy (supposedly) his name is Tucker

this is Tucker's tummy.

 

[threeheadedshadow]

Well supposidly one is a boy and one is a girl. Not sure but appropriatly their names are Cosmo and Wanda.
They both are growing very differently.

Wanda I believe is the girl who is having beak issues, she is growing really quick in width and is staying "flat" so to speak in height.


Cosmo is the boy I think. He is getting heavy and growing more round and tall.

 

[threeheadedshadow]

I will have to take newer pics side by side to see the difference.

 

[DutchieAmanda]

Cute torts! They are too young to know the sex, so hopefully you gave back-up names... ;-)

 

[Pearly]

Cute torts! They are too young to know the sex, so hopefully you gave back-up names... ;-)

Some breeders these days tell people you could regulate the sexes on hatchings during incubation by setting temps in certain ranges for males and others for females and that this would be like 90% accurate prediction. I don't care one way of the other, guess it matters to people who plan on breeding their torts

 

[threeheadedshadow]

Took some pictures after their bath today. The littles guys mouth looks completely normal again? Don't know what that was about?

 

[threeheadedshadow]

Here is a side by side for comparison.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Well supposidly one is a boy and one is a girl. Not sure but appropriatly their names are Cosmo and Wanda.
They both are growing very differently.

Wanda I believe is the girl who is having beak issues, she is growing really quick in width and is staying "flat" so to speak in height.
View attachment 162136

Cosmo is the boy I think. He is getting heavy and growing more round and tall.
View attachment 162135

The round and 'tall' is a female.. because they need the space for the eggs.. make sense? This will really begin to show in 3-4 years.. or more.

You have a good handle on your care.. sounds like more are starting to understand how to care for these non-basking / edge-of-rainforest South American tortoises.

Take a look at this if you like - [ unfortunately the heat-emitter page has been disabled by original author ] -
http://turtletary.com/northern.html
{ I'm not the only one to understand this process.. ( it was written after 7 years of "tweeking" and raising hatchlings ) .. maybe the first to make it public in 2005 - most of the others have copied it }

The main thing that concerns me is - "FORCE SOAKING" a redfoot - simply provide their needs and hands off! "FORCE SOAKING" is actually scaring the poop out of them!!! Every time we touch our torts we stress them to some degree - regardless what others say about "interacting" with your tortoise, etc.,etc.

Didn't mean to get off on a rant........

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I did wash the sphagnum moss in the sink when i was initially getting it wet before it went in the enclosure. I was trying to use that to help keep the humidity up.

Here are the bulbs I am using.

View attachment 159391

OH BTW... "shell-rot" IS fungus... that's why you use anti-fungal stuff!

13 watts is not going to hurt any eyes... it's all that 'mother-lode' basking bulb is what redfoot tortoises don't like!!! In fact .. when you look at my caresheet you'll see I don't use UVB at all.... they get their vitamin D needs from their diet. ONLY herbivorous torts bask because the plant protein diet does not supply the D requirements.. so they have to bask.

I'm not in this redfoot tortoise forum to mix it up --- just sharing experience with redfoot tortoises since 1998. [ there are other things I could be doing ]..

Understanding how to balance their care is critical for their livelihood. Those "other" things I could be doing are not as important as sharing techniques that help redfoot tortoises!

These are a few that hatched in 2007 -

 

[DutchieAmanda]

In fact .. when you look at my caresheet you'll see I don't use UVB at all.... they get their vitamin D needs from their diet. ONLY herbivorous torts bask because the plant protein diet does not supply the D requirements.. so they have to bask.

Do you have any good sources that support this? Because almost all animals (including omnivores such as humans) need sunlight for their vitamine D3. There's no vit 3D in plants, only a little bit in meat and some more in fat fishes. Therefore I believe that redfoots living indoors need an artificial source of UVB.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I apologize threeheadedshadow for going "off-topic" .. we all have to start and learn somehow - which isn't easy with all the confusing info out there!!!
NOT all tortoises require the same needs.. and that gets confusing too.

DutchieAmanda.. how about this for starters? You have to read it completely and apply it to Redfoot / edge of 'rainforest' tortoises -

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/lighting.html

First of all UVB is NOT the only source of D3. How can UVB do any good when they don't bask.. which redfoot tortoises do not do!

Personal experience.. currently 17+ years raising/breeding redfoot tortoises - it's gone like this: Acquired 3 hatchlings in late 1998.. they grew up to become females. In early 2004 they bred for the first time and laid eggs that hatched in February 2005. One of those hatchlings was raised by a friend by my Caresheet and developed into a female that created hatchlings in 2012.. thru present. { how many generations is that? } Even when mine are outdoors they avoid sunlight. These were the Northern ssp. / North of the Amazon river. The Brazilian ssp. do tend to like open spaces more and are a bit "cold-tolerant".. mainly due to their geographic location/flora they are from!

Redfoot tortoises are on the edge of being 'carnivorous'! From my understanding.. animal protein is a good source of calcium and amino acids that are required during the process for shell, bones, egg, etc. growth.

My point was: all that UVB and light is not needed.. WHEN all 4 parameters [ light.. humidity.. temperature and diet ] are maintained.. in balance.. they thrive and make babies - which mine have and do!

 

[Anyfoot]

I apologize threeheadedshadow for going "off-topic" .. we all have to start and learn somehow - which isn't easy with all the confusing info out there!!!
NOT all tortoises require the same needs.. and that gets confusing too.

DutchieAmanda.. how about this for starters? You have to read it completely and apply it to Redfoot / edge of 'rainforest' tortoises -

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/lighting.html

First of all UVB is NOT the only source of D3. How can UVB do any good when they don't bask.. which redfoot tortoises do not do!

Personal experience.. currently 17+ years raising/breeding redfoot tortoises - it's gone like this: Acquired 3 hatchlings in late 1998.. they grew up to become females. In early 2004 they bred for the first time and laid eggs that hatched in February 2005. One of those hatchlings was raised by a friend by my Caresheet and developed into a female that created hatchlings in 2012.. thru present. { how many generations is that? } Even when mine are outdoors they avoid sunlight. These were the Northern ssp. / North of the Amazon river. The Brazilian ssp. do tend to like open spaces more and are a bit "cold-tolerant".. mainly due to their geographic location/flora they are from!

Redfoot tortoises are on the edge of being 'carnivorous'! From my understanding.. animal protein is a good source of calcium and amino acids that are required during the process for shell, bones, egg, etc. growth.

My point was: all that UVB and light is not needed.. WHEN all 4 parameters [ light.. humidity.. temperature and diet ] are maintained.. in balance.. they thrive and make babies - which mine have and do!

Where do forest dwelling torts get there D3 from. Yellowfoots for example.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

You couldn't have asked a better question Anyfoot!!!

Fungi ( mushrooms ) and feces..... ever seen a redfoot eating ( his own ) poop? Ask me if I have.... haha

Ask me if I ever feed my redfoots mushrooms Do your research guys!

 

[DutchieAmanda]

Thank for your reply redfootnerd. If the mods want to make a separate thread out of this that's fine by me!

I read the article about lights, interesting info.

About diet being a source of vitamine D3, please read this (especially the paragraph about sources): https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/ Meat is low on vit D3 and most mushrooms are too.

About vit D3 being in feces: were would that come from then? In feces only nutrients are present that weren't absorped the first time, or that are produced by bacteria. If there's little vit D3 in the food, there will be even less in the feces. I've never heard of vit D3 producing bacteria.

About redfoots being carniverous: I know of only one study were natural feeding behaviour of redfoots was being studied. This showed them to be omnivorous; they were virtually eating everything they found... Cannot find the article right now but it was posted on this forum. Meat was a relevant portion of their diet (but no salmon or mackerel ).

I see yours also spend time outside. Even in the shadows they probably soak up some UVB rays. Mine is always inside (much too cold here!).

You say they do not bask. Mine LOVES to bask, under the MVB light. They're not all the same...

I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially for indoor redfoots, and provide a source of UVB rays. I agree they probably need less than herbivorous sun dwelling torts though.

 

[Azaleagtz569]

Dont read into what I said about the moss.
I use it too, I put mine in boiling water before I use it. I'm just curious about all this shell rot stuff, that's all. There has to be a reason it happens. I understand if there is a cut for bacteria to set in, but yours doesn't seem to have any obvious damage where the rot started from.

I wondered if anyone thought it was fungus growth from the moss.

Do you boil the moss to disinfect it?