My tortoise tries to mate with socks and stuff?

[Alex Tallberg]

Hey everyone,

My greek tortoise has, ever since I got him about 5 years ago (is born and raised in our home). His name is Cola-Petrus. This is a picture, haha. I'm sure he won't mind. http://imgur.com/soLXkw1

He's very active and brave (likes to climb and pummel at things, likes to "roll" down stairs twice the size of him, gradually, one by one). I always think that if it was in nature, he'd be a real "alpha male" tortoise. He bites everybody's feet, goes turbo-running after anything that moves, etc. So this brings me to the subject I wanted to talk about.

Every now and then he tries to mate with random objects; he seems to prefer my school backpack but he also likes the occasional used socks and boxers lying on the floor.. One thing I've noticed, it is NOT attracted to panties of women. He seems to prefer my dirty underwear. Most of the time he likes to just chill around them. It rarely gets a frenzy going on, but like I said it does happen every once in a while.

So, I'm not sure if it's a bad thing, I mean just like every other animal they surely enjoy their mating habits and I thought it's just a basic need and maybe it's just some harmless action in a tortoises boring life, so I haven't been interfering it. But why does he do this? Is it the testosterone of my sweat or something that sends it into a rage?

 

[kathyth]

Welcome!
From what I read here, you have a healthy male tortoise. Lucky for female tortoises, that his girlfriend is a pair if your socks.
I would let Mr. Man enjoy himself.
Cute!

 

[Abdulla6169]

Its normal, tortoise puberty.

 

[Alex Tallberg]

Welcome!
From what I read here, you have a healthy male tortoise. Lucky for female tortoises, that his girlfriend is a pair if your socks.
I would let Mr. Man enjoy himself.
Cute!

Thanks

I'm relieved it is normal. Tortoise puberty! HA!

 

[johnsonnboswell]

You might want to rethink the tortoise loose in the house thing. It offers lots of space, but many hazards. Eventually the hard floor can deform nails, feet & legs. Hard to control temps & humidity. The list goes on.

 

[Alex Tallberg]

You might want to rethink the tortoise loose in the house thing. It offers lots of space, but many hazards. Eventually the hard floor can deform nails, feet & legs. Hard to control temps & humidity. The list goes on.

Hey, this is a good post!

I keep him loose almost all the time I'm at home. But I always have a clear track of where he has gone. It will tend to go to seek shelter in the same places when he's tired of adventuring. He isn't in danger of any hazards, other than objects he could climb, which could, at it's worst, cause him to tip over. I also bathe him every few days and if I ever see signs of dehydration, like if his shell or skin are looking dry, I always bathe it more so it can drink more. Also I tend to feed him with more nutritious things like the occasional fruit on top of salads when dry skin happens. So I don't think it's an issue.. Do let me know if you think I'm doing something wrong! I'm always looking for better ways to take care of my tortoise.

Contrary to the issues in the paragraph above, something that I had not thought or heard of, is that its nails or legs could be deformed by a hard surface. I notice his nails are a bit unnaturally pointed, I have to say. Hmmm, I think he enjoys being loose a lot more than in the cage though.. Can the deforming lead to any serious consequences? Because, on the other hand, it's just natural adaptation to the surroundings, and this is the way he's bred, isnt it? He enjoys roaming around the house and I don't think it would be happy spending the majority of his day caged. When he's caged he just claws the glass and tries to climb out. After a while he does get tired though and just basks or dozes off.

So.. Does the deforming of nails lead to any long-term health problems? If not, I think it's worth for him to have a bit deformed nails if it means he can roam free in the house which he so much seems to enjoy.

 

[wellington]

Roaming free in the house is a health hazard for him. He doesn't like roaming in the house, he just likes roaming. He doesn't know of the dangers in the house, that's your responsibility. Deformed nails is a bad thing too. Proper housing and substrate would not cause deformed nails. Tortoises roam in the wild for miles. We can never give them that much space, but it is our duty to give them as much space as possible, but that space has to be a proper, safe space. Enlarge the enclosure and make it as natural as possible and let him live in it. If you want him to roam in a bigger space, make him one outside.

 

[Tom]

Tortoises should not be roaming loose in areas where humans live. This leads to death and injury on a regular basis. Talk to a vet that treats tortoises. I know several vets that do and they show me x-rays of broken tortoise bones and ingested foreign objects. Most people fail to recognize the danger until AFTER something bad happens. Too late then. We are trying to warn you ahead of time. They get stepped on, hit with doors, chewed by the family dog, or a visiting dog, fall, bite electrical cords, eat buttons, coins, shoelaces, or any other little object that will fit in their mouths, kids mess with them, and besides all of those possibilities, its too cold down on the floor for them.

What size enclosure is he in? How is it arranged? What are you using for heating and lighting. Perhaps we can help you make his enclosure a bit more enjoyable for him. I like to have a good indoor and outdoor enclosure for fair weather. I make the enclosures as big as I practically can, and all of my tortoises seem pretty happy and content in them.

 

[Alex Tallberg]

Hey,

I read your replies yesterday but was too busy to answer. I appreciate everyone who took the time to answer my thread. Your advice has made me think. So, after hearing your expertise and reading Wellington's "Beginner Mistakes" I've been thinking.. It's likely we aren't taking care of him in the best way possible. The basic things like a warming lamp, UV-lamp are there, but we don't control humidity in any way, and the enclosure is way too small, especially now that he is full-grown. The enclosure is something like 100x40 cm. The substrate (i dont know what it's called, soft brown chunky stuff originated from trees) is fine, we aren't using sand or grass/hay. Because we noticed the enclosure is too small we have let it roam around the house for quite some time now. Until now, I didn't know it was considered a bad thing for a tortoise. With that said, forgive me but I am still not buying the "roaming in the house is bad for a tortoise" -thesis. I have some counter-arguments and I hope we can discuss this further. So before I invest in a new enclosure and a humidity system, let me challenge your beliefs. Feel free to challenge me too! In the end we're just trying to take better care of my tortoise.

1) "He doesn't like roaming in the house, he just likes roaming".

I argue that, because he never knew what it is to roam in the wild since he's born and bred in captivity, he cannot have a conscious "preference" over what nature he's traversing. Tortoises just walk. And climb. And bask. And burrow into a hiding place. All a tortoise understands is that the joy of walking and going wherever he fancies. He can do this to a same, or possibly even to a greater degree loose in the house than in an encloure. For me, intuitively, this beats sitting 24/7 in a limited enclosure of perfectly mimicked nautral living-environment.

2) "hard to control humidity".

I say, isn't the very goal of monitoring/controlling humidity to make sure the turtle isn't dehydrated/dry? In my experience, you can literally see it when the humidity is too low. My turtle gets dry skin, it's a little more cracky and the shell slightly loses colour in patches. When I notice these signs of drought (not enough humidity) I give him baths more often and make sure he drinks, and also feed him with something more nutritious than usual, like the occasional fruit. So, as long as you can clearly tell humidity isn't an issue, skin and shell is nice and healthy and saturated of colour, where's the issue in letting him live outside the enclosure and have him roam free? Again, is it really mandatory to have a monitor when it's completely apparent even without things like that. I don't need a monitor to tell if I my own hands or feet are dry. On top of that, I wouldn't suddenly drop dead because my skin is getting dry, and so wouldn't a tortoise either!

3) "hard to control temps"

We know that tortoises are cold-blooded, that their bodies can adjust to the temperature. Admittedly I know little of this subject, but anyway, isn't that the bottom line? The usual day for my tortoise is that, in the morning he basks in the sun, gets all warmed up. After the bask he is very warm and becomes very active. Then he just roams around doing what he wants. Looks for food (i usually give him half in the day, half in the evening), walks a lot, stays at some points of interest etc. The sun shines most of the time through the windows so he can stay and bask if he chooses. Basically, why is controlling temps so important when tortoises are cold-blooded? The temperatures aren't so gradual and linear in nature either (morning: average+ / day: warm / evening: average- / night: cool) I think there is a chance you guys are overthinking it? In the house, like in nature, some days are warmer, some days are colder. Basically dependent on if the sun shines or not. I just can't see it being an issue?

4) "Tortoises should not be roaming loose in areas where humans live. This leads to death and injury on a regular basis. He doesn't know of the dangers in the house, that's your responsibility."

So the obvious hazards quickly became obvious to us, like him trying to eat bad things (he fancies cat dry-food for some reason, haha), and nothing has happened to him for a long time. I take the safety of the surroundings very seriously, and I do feel it's my responsibility to ensure he is safe in this house. I never leave things lying on the ground. I'm not leaving the house unless he is in his enclosure. Like I said, the only health hazard for him would be to climb and tip over (which isn't that severe, I'll always be there to rescue him) and if someone steps on or kicks him.. It does happen, I admit, although very rarely. But at the end of the day, he is no more in danger in our house than he would be in nature. And I think him running free is worth the risk of getting the occasional bruise. They are tortoises, their shells are built to endure hits. Our tortoise is big enough to notice under your feet before you step on it with full force, and what comes to kicks, I've once accidentally kicked him in the butt pretty hard, he literally glided close to 2 metres forward from the force.. I was terrified, but he was fine. If it had been on the frontside.. That would have been worse. Though they are more prepared for a hit they can see coming so he'd have time to tuck his head in. But yeah, kicks from humans at some point in their lives are inevitable :/

5) "Eventually the hard floor can deform nails, feet & legs."

This is something I can't argue against. It's just one of the inevitable risks involved that you either have to accept or not accept, like the danger of kicking or stepping on him. If this turns out to be a serious thing, I might want to reconsider keeping him loose. I need to know more of this, guys. Can this cause anything serious? I'm starting to think of a horror scenario of twisted knees and unusable legs. Kind of like when a human sits too long in front of the computer, his back begins to arch in that horrible way. I don't want this to happen to my tortoise. So, how serious is this deformation? Is my horror-fantasy a chance?

So, to conclude, right now I genuinely believe letting him roam free is worth it, even with the risks involved. I think you guys take very good care of your tortoises, but is your way the only acceptable way to have a tortoise? Anything less than perfect is not good enough? Not all humans are living in perfect conditions either but can still be okay. I think if you guys' tortoises were humans they would be living like millionaires with your humidity trackings and perfect enclosures.. But it doesn't mean there aren't other ways to ensure a good life! Just some food for thought, thanks for reading everyone! Speaking of food, I need to eat. Hmm, so does my tortoise.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

The dangers in the wild are different. They can burrow and wait for better weather and more food availability, they can create their own humid microclimates by digging and peeing into their burrows. They can brumate and estivate. They can leave. They can site their burrows for maximum sun and safety. They are adapted to their native areas.

The most important thing perhaps to remember about tortoises and turtles is to take a long view. Effects of care can take a long time to show up, and by then may be irreversible. It's all right so far is only a working hypothesis, it's not proof. Insufficient data.

It's that guy falling off the Empire State Building passing the 12th floor when someone calls out: how's it going? And the guy responds, it's alright so far. That's tortoise keeping.

Some of us have already seen the results of various care methods and have the cemeteries to prove it. We're trying to save your animal & you from a world of grief.

 

[Abdulla6169]

Hey,

I read your replies yesterday but was too busy to answer. I appreciate everyone who took the time to answer my thread. Your advice has made me think. So, after hearing your expertise and reading Wellington's "Beginner Mistakes" I've been thinking.. It's likely we aren't taking care of him in the best way possible. The basic things like a warming lamp, UV-lamp are there, but we don't control humidity in any way, and the enclosure is way too small, especially now that he is full-grown. The enclosure is something like 100x40 cm. The substrate (i dont know what it's called, soft brown chunky stuff originated from trees) is fine, we aren't using sand or grass/hay. Because we noticed the enclosure is too small we have let it roam around the house for quite some time now. Until now, I didn't know it was considered a bad thing for a tortoise. With that said, forgive me but I am still not buying the "roaming in the house is bad for a tortoise" -thesis. I have some counter-arguments and I hope we can discuss this further. So before I invest in a new enclosure and a humidity system, let me challenge your beliefs. Feel free to challenge me too! In the end we're just trying to take better care of my tortoise.

1) "He doesn't like roaming in the house, he just likes roaming".

I argue that, because he never knew what it is to roam in the wild since he's born and bred in captivity, he cannot have a conscious "preference" over what nature he's traversing. Tortoises just walk. And climb. And bask. And burrow into a hiding place. All a tortoise understands is that the joy of walking and going wherever he fancies. He can do this to a same, or possibly even to a greater degree loose in the house than in an encloure. For me, intuitively, this beats sitting 24/7 in a limited enclosure of perfectly mimicked nautral living-environment.

2) "hard to control humidity".

I say, isn't the very goal of monitoring/controlling humidity to make sure the turtle isn't dehydrated/dry? In my experience, you can literally see it when the humidity is too low. My turtle gets dry skin, it's a little more cracky and the shell slightly loses colour in patches. When I notice these signs of drought (not enough humidity) I give him baths more often and make sure he drinks, and also feed him with something more nutritious than usual, like the occasional fruit. So, as long as you can clearly tell humidity isn't an issue, skin and shell is nice and healthy and saturated of colour, where's the issue in letting him live outside the enclosure and have him roam free? Again, is it really mandatory to have a monitor when it's completely apparent even without things like that. I don't need a monitor to tell if I my own hands or feet are dry. On top of that, I wouldn't suddenly drop dead because my skin is getting dry, and so wouldn't a tortoise either!

3) "hard to control temps"

We know that tortoises are cold-blooded, that their bodies can adjust to the temperature. Admittedly I know little of this subject, but anyway, isn't that the bottom line? The usual day for my tortoise is that, in the morning he basks in the sun, gets all warmed up. After the bask he is very warm and becomes very active. Then he just roams around doing what he wants. Looks for food (i usually give him half in the day, half in the evening), walks a lot, stays at some points of interest etc. The sun shines most of the time through the windows so he can stay and bask if he chooses. Basically, why is controlling temps so important when tortoises are cold-blooded? The temperatures aren't so gradual and linear in nature either (morning: average+ / day: warm / evening: average- / night: cool) I think there is a chance you guys are overthinking it? In the house, like in nature, some days are warmer, some days are colder. Basically dependent on if the sun shines or not. I just can't see it being an issue?

4) "Tortoises should not be roaming loose in areas where humans live. This leads to death and injury on a regular basis. He doesn't know of the dangers in the house, that's your responsibility."

So the obvious hazards quickly became obvious to us, like him trying to eat bad things (he fancies cat dry-food for some reason, haha), and nothing has happened to him for a long time. I take the safety of the surroundings very seriously, and I do feel it's my responsibility to ensure he is safe in this house. I never leave things lying on the ground. I'm not leaving the house unless he is in his enclosure. Like I said, the only health hazard for him would be to climb and tip over (which isn't that severe, I'll always be there to rescue him) and if someone steps on or kicks him.. It does happen, I admit, although very rarely. But at the end of the day, he is no more in danger in our house than he would be in nature. And I think him running free is worth the risk of getting the occasional bruise. They are tortoises, their shells are built to endure hits. Our tortoise is big enough to notice under your feet before you step on it with full force, and what comes to kicks, I've once accidentally kicked him in the butt pretty hard, he literally glided close to 2 metres forward from the force.. I was terrified, but he was fine. If it had been on the frontside.. That would have been worse. Though they are more prepared for a hit they can see coming so he'd have time to tuck his head in. But yeah, kicks from humans at some point in their lives are inevitable :/

5) "Eventually the hard floor can deform nails, feet & legs."

This is something I can't argue against. It's just one of the inevitable risks involved that you either have to accept or not accept, like the danger of kicking or stepping on him. If this turns out to be a serious thing, I might want to reconsider keeping him loose. I need to know more of this, guys. Can this cause anything serious? I'm starting to think of a horror scenario of twisted knees and unusable legs. Kind of like when a human sits too long in front of the computer, his back begins to arch in that horrible way. I don't want this to happen to my tortoise. So, how serious is this deformation? Is my horror-fantasy a chance?

So, to conclude, right now I genuinely believe letting him roam free is worth it, even with the risks involved. I think you guys take very good care of your tortoises, but is your way the only acceptable way to have a tortoise? Anything less than perfect is not good enough? Not all humans are living in perfect conditions either but can still be okay. I think if you guys' tortoises were humans they would be living like millionaires with your humidity trackings and perfect enclosures.. But it doesn't mean there aren't other ways to ensure a good life! Just some food for thought, thanks for reading everyone! Speaking of food, I need to eat. Hmm, so does my tortoise.

1- that could be very dangerous, a single kick can kill him (heels, maybe?). If it is aimed just right it will kill him. Imagine you might be holding something hot, your tortoise makes you trip and fall. Or tripping on him. Not good. A small outdoor enclosure can be made with cinder blocks. Cheap and effective.
2 & 3-Coldblooded creatures don't "adjust" temperatures to where they are living. They use burrows, basking, and shade to achieve the best internal temperatures. In a room he has no ability to do that. Humidity is also a great factor, a humid room (a bathroom?) can cause problems if it is too cool, and a dry room can cause pyramiding in some hatchlings.
4- anything can happen, what will you do in a fire? Look for him? Too risky if you don't know where he is. Again, too many variables.
5-walking on dirt is easier for a tortoise, they're legs aren't made for hard floors. The nails will look start deforming. Which will lead to other problems.

 

[Amanda81]

Your tort needs a surface to file down his nails. Just cruising on hardwoods, ceramic tile, or carpet all the time will not file them, so they will grow and grow, becoming so long that they start making contact with surfaces, once they get to a certain point in length they will begin to curl. Now you might not think this is to much if a deformity but it is painful. Imagine letting your toenails grow so long that each time you step, they make contact with the floor, or they curl back into your skin, it's painful. I have not personally seen this in a case of a tortoise but I have seen it with many dogs. It's a horrible thing and the process to get the problem corrected is lengthy and painful for the animal.

 

[LLLReptile]

While you clearly care very passionately for your tortoise, please consider that these are all people with more years of experience with more tortoises than you and yours - decades more experience in some cases!

No, he's never experienced the wild, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have instincts. Same with humping your socks. He's never experienced a female tortoise, or known what tortoise sexy-times looks like, but he sure figured it out, right? That is the point - he has instincts to roam, and is a reptile. Your house is just the only available space he can roam in; that doesn't necessarily mean he likes it. It's a little alarming that the logic there is that "he's never experienced anything better so that means he likes this substandard option, right?"

Your tortoise needs a bit better care; from what I can make out in the picture originally posted, he looks as though he has a beak deformity, and the added nail and bone deformities from walking on an unnatural surface, not receiving the UVB he needs, is going to have a serious impact on his health and quality of life.

So please take the advice being given to you - you are not being attacked, no one needs to list things point for point, but do consider things from the tortoise's point of view. It'd be cruel to intentionally keep a dog or cat at sub-standard care because "they've never experienced the better option", it is just as cruel to do that to the tortoise. Consider altering your husbandry to accommodate the tortoise, not just what you think is charming.

-Jen

 

[johnsonnboswell]

The goal should be the best possible care, not to fix problems after they rise, especially when those problems are preventable. Dehydration should never be allowed to occur. Soaking after the fact isn't enough. It damages organs and mucus membranes. How much can the kidneys take? By the the time problems are obvious, the animal has been suffering and doesn't always recover.

Currently there is someone on this forum whose tortoise has been lost in the house for days.

I understand the impulse to have tortoises loose in the house. I really do. If I could go back in time and talk to my younger self who did that, I'd say the same things I've said to you.

 

[Alex Tallberg]

Hey,

For those of you who are waiting for an answer, I'm just letting you know I've read all your advice and I'm thinking about it, but I haven't made up my mind yet to the extent of being able to post a reply.

But I'll get back to you all soon, take care until then