Neal had said something a few weeks ago how big my babcocki leopard was. So did a friend the other weekend. This was the two big girls before going to an educational seminar on Saturday. It's a 50" tub. They're both close to 19-20" biggens I guess.
My gibundo leopard girls
- Thread starter tortadise
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You had me all excited thinking that you were going to show us some local specific leopards and I was about to look up exactly where Gibundo was in Africa. 
Hope you don't mind me posting one of my own on your thread here:
I just thought my above female looked like yours big one towards the bottom of the picture. The one I have is pretty big too. Haven't measured her in awhile but around the 17" mark.
Hope you don't mind me posting one of my own on your thread here:
I just thought my above female looked like yours big one towards the bottom of the picture. The one I have is pretty big too. Haven't measured her in awhile but around the 17" mark.
Haha. It's over there somewhere I swear. Nah I kinda gave up on the local specific ones after all that crap from the last go around. Sucked was super excited about those too.
Man they look like sisters almost.
Man they look like sisters almost.
They all look great. My male thinks so too
What makes you think either of those are pure babcockii?
Love the lower one. I just got a couple of new girls this size. No pics yet, but I'll post them when I get some.
Love the lower one. I just got a couple of new girls this size. No pics yet, but I'll post them when I get some.
I have no idea to be honest. They both have pardalis characteristics for sure. Especially the blondish one. She was a rescue 10 years ago and something went wrong with her care as you can see she's all jacked up. But her sister was massive full bodied. If Fiona the blonde one was normal like her sister she would be a tanker too. Still pretty good size. I see a lot of pardalis in Mo the darker one. Probably the o so lovely inter specific hybridization of the two.
I see some South African genetics in the lower one for sure. The liter one must have some too to be that big even with the early setbacks. It would sure be nice if we had the baselines and could DNA test some of these gorgeous torts to put like with like for breeding.
Have either of these girls thrown babies yet? What do the hatchlings look like? Do you have them with a SA male?
Have either of these girls thrown babies yet? What do the hatchlings look like? Do you have them with a SA male?
And what is "gibundo"?
Big.
Yeah I get babies every year from Mo the black one. The blonde one does not produce. She was kept with that massive male pardalis I sold a few years back. She laid only 2 oblong eggs that never hatched. This was back in 2008. They are both housed with a babcocki male. He mounts and breeds them both. No eggs from the blonde since 2008. Got 17 eggs from mo a few weeks ago. Her first clutch to start the season. Let me pull up some baby pics. No double spots or speckled legs/face though.
Took 5 months for majority to hatch out. Then another 4 months for the remaining to hatch out of this clutch. Still have a clutch in the ground I'm waiting on to hatch from her. I don't think they will though. It's been over a year. But no reason in giving up.
Well take that back some speckling on a few of them.
Well take that back some speckling on a few of them.
Do you use any sort of incubation tricks with these leopards or is it all just one temperature throughout the whole incubation process?
Have you had ground clutches hatch in the past? If so, any differences in hatch rates between ground hatching and artificial incubation?
Have you had ground clutches hatch in the past? If so, any differences in hatch rates between ground hatching and artificial incubation?
I cooled the eggs last year(one clutch) for a month or so just ambient, then incubated. I've also just put straight in the incubator, also just left out in the room and let it fluctuate. The latter had the worst hatch rates but still hatched. All took between 5-7 months. I have tried in ground. Still waiting on those to hatch. We're laid over a year ago. So probably not going to. But then again we do get cold in the winter so they may have been diapaused for 4-5 months.
Gpp eggs can take up to 18 months to hatch out of the ground depending on when they were laid. Wait until the end of September before you give up. I'd run the sprinkler on that area toward the end of August.
Also, I've been told room temp isn't cool enough. Gotta get those eggs below 65 and keep them there for a while.
Seems a shame to breed that big girl to a babcocki. Interested in a breeding loan? One way or the other? I'd like to she what she throws after a few breedings with a Gpp.
She was with this guy for a while last summer a while.
Pretty good size male pardalis pardalis. He was 24 pounds and 19" SCL to be honest Tom I may just do that. I've kinda just let the leopards do there thing. I really got out of focus with them since the whole pure Kenyan leopard project fell off with the female dying. I just let them do there thing collect and incubate. I wouldn't ever sell any of them. But sure am running out of room with all these other projects coming in. Lots of other African tortoises.
Kelly, I've got 4 males ready to breed right now. Looking to place one more of those. I've got 4 immature females that need to grow for another year or two at least before breeding, so those are all separate and living together. Then I have a couple of new large adult females that look similar to your two and are about that size, if not a little bigger. These two new girls, reported to be pure SA leopards, are in quarantine right now and they are settling in nicely. I have four enclosure set up for these guys right now. My intention is to put the largest male in the largest of the enclosures with these two mature big girls once they are done with quarantine. Then I will leave the 4 immature females in their own enclosure to grow up "un-molested" by the crazy adolescent males, and the remaining to young males will live all alone, each with their own enclosure until the younger females are ready to be paired off and put with a male for a ratio of 1.2. It would be really easy to add one or both of your girls into the larger group. That would make 3-4 mature females in with that male. With the way all these young males have been behaving, I think that would be a good ratio.
Lemme know if you want to work something out.
Lemme know if you want to work something out.
Well if your looking to place one of the 4 I'd love to have him, ha. Pardalis does seem to suit this girl anyways.
What are the hatch rates like with the eggs you throw right in the incubator?
I've been trying different things over the past couple of years. The best results are keeping them in the ground over winter and digging them up around this time of year.
Interesting observation: the eggs produced by the female above almost all hatch out when thrown directly in the incubator. I haven't had a clutch that hatched less than 80% from her over the past two years that she's been producing. She displays more of the typical South African physical characteristics that we commonly attribute to that variant as do her hatchlings than another female of mine who's clutches have hatch rates of around 20% unless they are cooled down first. Then they are up to the 80%-90% range. Interesting as it's commonly understood that SA leopard eggs require some sort of diapause before hatching, and not others. It would be nice to have some actual data from specific areas of their natural location, but for now we'll have to settle for comparing notes among ourselves.
Well it kinda depends too where the local of the animals were collected. GPP from southern Namibia or Botswana for example. Those territories get cold at night even during the summer. Namaqualand is full blown desert. But of course the GPP are on te outskirts and not quite in the actual desert regions. Then leopards from eastern SA will be exposed to sure to winter like conditions. So would obviously change the temperatures throughout year and daily in 2 totally different regions. Same goes with geometric compared with psammobates tentorius tremeni (Namaqualand tent) the geometric is in a temperate zone that isn't too hot so lays multiple eggs where as the tent only lays one massive egg. A notation of study that for some reason is easier on the animal in the most extreme conditions.
Holy crap. Thanks Neal for bringing up the eggs in the ground thing. I totally forgot about a nest I need to dig up of some Sulcata eggs. I tried to dig up the leopard eggs but couldn't find them. I didn't mark the nest very well. They are in the greenhouse though. So get quite the amount of moist soil above. The hatch percentage just thrown in the incubator has been around the same as yours 80%. When cooled it's around the same too. However she was received on trade with the male that had been with her for years. Was very very small. Surprised she even laid fertile eggs. Like an 8-9" male. Now that she has been with a larger more mature male should hope to see better fertility.
I've never done the ground thing then dug them up. I might try that. She's due here pretty soon for her second clutch so maybe will take a go at that. Haha and thanks for reminding me about in ground eggs. I better get to digging on those sulcatas. Last year I did the same thing(forgot) and had wee little guys walking all over in the pen.
I've never done the ground thing then dug them up. I might try that. She's due here pretty soon for her second clutch so maybe will take a go at that. Haha and thanks for reminding me about in ground eggs. I better get to digging on those sulcatas. Last year I did the same thing(forgot) and had wee little guys walking all over in the pen.
Good luck finding them. I had a lot of personal issues to deal with last year and I lost track of at least four leopard nests. I tried digging around where I thought they were with no luck .It's still a little early, but soon I'll be out there every day with hands and knees on the ground hoping to find hatchlings. I worry that the ants or heat will get to them before I do.
And we have another 17 eggs from Mo again tonight. 2nd clutch totaling 32 eggs. Not bad. Wonder if she will 3rd or 4th clutch this year.
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a 54 gallon tote, as you have in the image is
Roughneck Hi-Top Storage Box - 54 gal:
Size: 42.5" x 21.5" x 18.6"
The tortoise size estimate is still dead on at just under 20 inces, still slightly smaller than the width of the tub.
You had me wondering how a 50 inch tub was fitting of a 48 inch shelf, almost.
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