Sam & Ella
Member
I have to scavenge metal racks and "concrete mesh" wire to put over the Wall Street Journal bedding. Takes a minute to change the paper. Roll and replace.
My Critter Cage tortoise setup.
- Thread starter Sam & Ella
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Sam & Ella
Member
I have to scavenge metal racks and "concrete mesh" wire to put over the Wall Street Journal bedding. Takes a minute to change the paper. Roll and replace. And bird cages work well for hatchlings outside. Doors open and trayat bottom slides out and holds water.
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Hi tortoise need correct set up for a successful healthy life. That includes, heat, light, substrate , diet, calcium and regular soaks etc....
Two's a crowd and can cause distress to one of them. They seem to have pyramiding so correct care urgently required.
Please read this info and makes changes as required.
tortoiseforum.org
Newspaper and concrete mesh base are not going to be comfortable or effective. In addition low rocks, hides are all good addition. Imagine you were in their position what would you like to live in!
Two's a crowd and can cause distress to one of them. They seem to have pyramiding so correct care urgently required.
Please read this info and makes changes as required.
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
tortoiseforum.org
Newspaper and concrete mesh base are not going to be comfortable or effective. In addition low rocks, hides are all good addition. Imagine you were in their position what would you like to live in!
So... Are you here on this forum for advice on how to best raise your tortoises? Because, what you are showing is pretty much the opposite of healthy tortoise care. I am not saying that to shame you or yell at you, but to ask what your goal HERE is. Do you want the advice of this group? If so, just understand everything is being said for the benefit of the tortoises, not about making anyone feel badly. If you are here just to show your setup, this is probably not the best forum for you, because pretty much everything is unhealthy for them.
If you are open to learning what the experienced people here have to say, you're tortoises will live longer and be healthier.
The link above is the best place to start, but at a high level:
1) Tortoises cannot live in pairs. Groups or singletons only.
2) Tortoises cannot live in cages, they should not have wire bars on the ground and walls. They need substrate on the bottom (ie: coco coir or orchid bark) that they can dig into. They can also climb the wires and fall and flip on their back and hurt themselves or die.
3) they need HORIZONTAL space, not vertical space as a bird cage provides. They need to be able to walk around and move in order to digest and build their muscles
4) The open air bars of the cage will let all heat escape, they need a completely enclosed chamber (walls and top for babies)
5) They need more than one bulb for heat and light needs
I almost hesitate to say "look online" because most info out there is trash, but one thing for sure you will see - people do not keep tortoises in bird cages. Your tortoises WILL die if you continue this.
Again, please read this link: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/#post-2036954
If you are open to learning what the experienced people here have to say, you're tortoises will live longer and be healthier.
The link above is the best place to start, but at a high level:
1) Tortoises cannot live in pairs. Groups or singletons only.
2) Tortoises cannot live in cages, they should not have wire bars on the ground and walls. They need substrate on the bottom (ie: coco coir or orchid bark) that they can dig into. They can also climb the wires and fall and flip on their back and hurt themselves or die.
3) they need HORIZONTAL space, not vertical space as a bird cage provides. They need to be able to walk around and move in order to digest and build their muscles
4) The open air bars of the cage will let all heat escape, they need a completely enclosed chamber (walls and top for babies)
5) They need more than one bulb for heat and light needs
I almost hesitate to say "look online" because most info out there is trash, but one thing for sure you will see - people do not keep tortoises in bird cages. Your tortoises WILL die if you continue this.
Again, please read this link: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/#post-2036954
Sam & Ella
Member
Sam & Ella
Member
Not all of us can husband in an environment that replicates nature. I spray the clean areas of the newspaper substate with tap water, give them distilled for drinking, and the grid is easy to clean. I have "maternity wards" for them when they do their dance, but they seldom deposit in the shredded corncob, vermiculite and soil. The almost always lay in the Critter Cages shown. Your emoji is "pregnant" with proper implications. I did read your comments long ago. You are appreciated.
Is this a joke? Are you trying to get a rise out of people?
Newspaper is not a suitable substrate for any tortoise of any age.
You spray the newspaper with tap water? That would just make a wet mess.
Distilled water is not good for drinking. They need the minerals in "regular" water. Distilled is fine for spraying the tortoises or the enclosure, but not for soaking or drinking.
Shredded corn cob? That is one of the worst possible choices. Soil should never be used for tortoise substrate. Vermiculite is fine for incubation, but not for adult tortoises to walk around on.
Do you want help with these things?
Sam & Ella
Member
My bad, I guess, but you made many inferences that aren't that I do not practice in reality. The newspaper is a poor substrate, but my only viable compromise due to the number of cages. In a spare bedroom.
I only spray the paper where there is not any detritus, mostly when the "sun lights" are on, and it dries in a matter of 10-15 minutes, and I repeat occasionally. (No mold.)
THANKS for the water and the soil comment. I feared the fluoride or lead remnants in "city water".
The corncob and vermiculite mix in my "maternity" bins are mixed with just a little outdoor topsoil. I use the materials for its "lightness" for digging. It's not too dense (like I am at times.) It's about 7" deep, and it NEVER gets wet. Overnight stays only. This mix is not substrate in cages. The soil is about 5% of the volume. I do that to bring an "earth element" in if they can smell it. (I know, a stretch.) I get 95% of the dust out of the mix before they use it. And I sterilize it from time-to-time.
Tom, your word is gospel to me. And we cannot overstate our appreciation for you here. My follow-up comment above is due to the fact that she gave my first comment an "ouch" emoji, and rightly so. "But I cannot duplicate nature" was my reply. So I the best I can.
My kids "run to me" when I walk in by their cages. Minor pyramiding, and rock heavy. Maybe too heavy. My analysis, over 60 years of chelonian keeping with no fatalities, is that I'm confident in my hubandry, or I'd quit.
Everything is so very wrong. You need to make the changes ASAP! You don't need to be the nature they come from, but you do need to do so much better by then, if not, your should rehome them! This is a very sad situation for them. It's not hard or impossible to give them the correct environment.
Please, take the advice given and make the needed changes before it's too late for the poor things!!!
Please, take the advice given and make the needed changes before it's too late for the poor things!!!
It's hard to tell from the picture but it seems to me that your tortoises are suffering from having to live in improper conditions. They look flat instead of domed, which means they're in pain due to Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). If you don't want your tortoises to be suffering in pain, please read the care sheet and change the way you feed and house them ASAP.
Those are pancake tortoises in the picture. That is why they look flat, but I do agree that a major overhaul in the care and housing is necessary.
This just reminds me of zoos in the 1970s, or in third world countries. Animals in cages and concrete enclosures with no attempt to be even close to what they "should" have in nature.
I'm glad that you are receptive to some suggestions and feedback.
You don't have to duplicate nature. None of us do, and none of us can, but you should use one of the three safe substrate types for their housing. That part is easy to do. I also maintain a lot of cages, and its not difficult to use proper substrate. Newspaper is bad for so many reasons. No one is telling you to try to duplicate nature. We are only offering sound advice for how to house them in our homes in a purely practical captive situation.
If the city water is safe for you to drink and bath in, then it is safe for the tortoises. I have never tested this, but I have read that sometimes the distillation process can leave heavy metals in "distilled water". I use collected rain water or RO water for applications where I don't want mineralized water. For drinking and soaking I use my city tap water, or my well water.
They should never have access to corn cob bedding, and I wouldn't use soil or vermiculite either. They can form nests in damp coco coir just as well and it is safe for them. You can buy coco coir cheaply in bulk at garden centers or order it online. Its cheaper than soil, corn cob bedding and vermiculite what bought in bulk. You should be able to get cheap cypress mulch there too. Orchid bark is best, but I know that it can be hard to find in some parts of the country. There is no way to remove the dust from vermiculite, corn cob bedding or soil if it is dry. As the particles rub together, it generates ever more dust, and your tortoises should not be breathing that in. They need damp substrate for living in and for laying eggs in. Keeping them on dry substrate or newspaper is terrible for them.
I do not wish to offend or upset you, but some of what you are doing is not good, even though your tortoises have managed to survive it. I hope we can help you improve things for them.
Megatron's Mom
Well-Known Member
I'm still learning, but wanted to add a tip I learned from some of the frog groups I'm in.
Tip: Add spring tails and dwarf isopods to your substrate. I couldn't find orchid bark except for small bags. So I used cypress mulch from Home Depot. I tossed in some isopods and springtails. My enclosure after just over a year with nothing but spot cleaning is just like day one. I did have to add some more mulch as it will break down and I'm sure the isopods are eating away at is too. But no smell at all, those little bugs keep it nice and clean.
Tip: Add spring tails and dwarf isopods to your substrate. I couldn't find orchid bark except for small bags. So I used cypress mulch from Home Depot. I tossed in some isopods and springtails. My enclosure after just over a year with nothing but spot cleaning is just like day one. I did have to add some more mulch as it will break down and I'm sure the isopods are eating away at is too. But no smell at all, those little bugs keep it nice and clean.
Aw Geez! So sorry for my mix up, @Sam & Ella
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