Leopard tort

David Harmon

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
186
Location (City and/or State)
Liverpool
Hello,

Am wondering can I put the leopard tortoises in the garden with my Hermanns or will this be a issue?

Thanks for any info.
 

TechnoCheese

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
4,509
Location (City and/or State)
Lewisville, Texas
That would be an issue. Species should never be mixed, even if for short amounts of time. Thanks for asking first!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,514
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello,

Am wondering can I put the leopard tortoises in the garden with my Hermanns or will this be a issue?

Thanks for any info.
Species should never be mixed. The disease potential is high. What one species from one part of the world can tolerate and live with, can be dealt to a different species from a different area. They are also not compatible behaviorally.

More info here:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/mixing-species.139808/
 

cjturtle

New Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
20
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Just curious, has there been any studies that suggest one way or another? Everyone seems to have different opinions on this.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,514
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Just curious, has there been any studies that suggest one way or another? Everyone seems to have different opinions on this.
One way or another about what? Mixing species and tortoises giving each other foreign diseases? You need a study for that?

The people who mix species haven't had a disaster yet and simply don't realize the risk they are taking. Or they don't care.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,477
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
One way or another about what? Mixing species and tortoises giving each other foreign diseases? You need a study for that?

The people who mix species haven't had a disaster yet and simply don't realize the risk they are taking. Or they don't care.
The people who have mixed species either have kept the sickness and death quiet, or they haven't realized the tortoises died because of spread of 'germs' due to mixing species.
 

txturtledude

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
100
Location (City and/or State)
DFW Area, Texas
giphy.gif


Kidding aside...never mix species.
 

cjturtle

New Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
20
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
One way or another about what? Mixing species and tortoises giving each other foreign diseases? You need a study for that?

The people who mix species haven't had a disaster yet and simply don't realize the risk they are taking. Or they don't care.
Here is my opinion, If there is a study I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read. Otherwise it is one hobbist thoughts, opinions and experiences against anothers . That might be why people seem to argue both sides.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,514
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Here is my opinion, If there is a study I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read. Otherwise it is one hobbist thoughts, opinions and experiences against anothers . That might be why people seem to argue both sides.
Its not a hobbyist's opinion. It is medical science concerning disease transmission between similar species. I don't see anyone arguing that its okay to mix species. We had a few argumentative individuals in the past who wanted to contradict everything that was said and say, "Look, I'm doing it and nothing has happened…". To that argument I simply add, "… yet." And that is what Yvonne was talking about too. Notice those people in those arguments aren't around anymore? When you advocate for the wrong thing and disaster finally comes, what percentage of people will then get on the internet and say, "Hey look world! I was wrong and all of my tortoises died after I spent hundreds or thousands trying to save them from a some mystery illness that just happened for no reason in my pen where I keep several species together."?

That is just the medical aspect. What is even more compelling to me, as a student of behavior, a guy holding a college degree in behavior, and a career behavioral professional, is that so many species are behaviorally incompatible. Due to their rigid shells, rigid mouths and lack of vocal cords, our tortoises can't snarl, growl, hunch their back, or do any of the other common mammalian things that we all associate with aggression or defensiveness. Their are subtle signs, but most people mistake these signs for the opposite of what they are. Cuddling is actually crowding. Following is actually chasing. Pushing on a tortoise that is on its back is not "helping", it is a continuation of the territorial attack that put the tortoise on its back in the first place.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,514
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Here is my opinion, If there is a study I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read. Otherwise it is one hobbist thoughts, opinions and experiences against anothers . That might be why people seem to argue both sides.

@Yvonne G ,
In the past you've wondered why I argued with certain members, instead of ignoring them and letting things go. THIS is why. When those people typed out incorrect info and hit "Post Reply", it is forever on the internet. New members will come along and read it and take it as accurate, truthful or helpful. Bad info has to be argued with. It cannot be allowed to stand. If the arguing is upsetting to people, that is an unfortunate side effect. What is more upsetting to me is when people read those comments and think it might be okay to mix species, or keep a pair of adult tortoises together, or keep a tortoise on sand, or incubate on perlite, or keep a baby sulcata on dry substrate with ultra-low humidity since they come from the desert. I can't make people stop saying those things. All I can do is argue with them and attempt to show anyone reading why they are wrong.

I can't let bad tortoise info lie.
 

Markw84

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
5,061
Location (City and/or State)
Sacramento, CA (Central Valley)
@Yvonne G ,
In the past you've wondered why I argued with certain members, instead of ignoring them and letting things go. THIS is why. When those people typed out incorrect info and hit "Post Reply", it is forever on the internet. New members will come along and read it and take it as accurate, truthful or helpful. Bad info has to be argued with. It cannot be allowed to stand. If the arguing is upsetting to people, that is an unfortunate side effect. What is more upsetting to me is when people read those comments and think it might be okay to mix species, or keep a pair of adult tortoises together, or keep a tortoise on sand, or incubate on perlite, or keep a baby sulcata on dry substrate with ultra-low humidity since they come from the desert. I can't make people stop saying those things. All I can do is argue with them and attempt to show anyone reading why they are wrong.

I can't let bad tortoise info lie.
Agree, Completely, Tom.

I always look at what I post, and what I see posted, as something many people will read. Not just the OP, but others browsing and those who do not post, but search for info. Many who are not members of the forum, but search for info. If you do a google search now for most information regarding tortoises, a post in tortoiseforum.org comes up now most often as a result. It links directly to specific posts, and searchers do not necessarily know how, nor take the time, to look through the forum for balancing opinions. Search engines prioritize results based a lot on how frequently a site is viewed, so we now come up with most searches. It is not just arguing with a new post, or meant to be "jumping down someone's throat". I feel it is necessary to give balance when we see something posted that will be viewed and can be seen as "authoritative" advice.
 

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
5,172
Location (City and/or State)
South of Southern California, but not Mexico
Here is my opinion, If there is a study I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read. Otherwise it is one hobbist thoughts, opinions and experiences against anothers . That might be why people seem to argue both sides.

There have been results of actions reported in veterinarian literature. Sorta like investigators sorting out why planes crashed after the fact. These reports indicate disease from a species that live in one place as a host and not causing pathology in the host species, can quickly infect and spread through other species naive to the disease, killing many fairly quickly.

The science is that the host species can make antibodies for the disease organism and the non-host species can not. This is replicated in humans and non-human primates. The herpes we get among ourselves is not deadly for most people, but if you get herpes from a chimp, you WILL die with out immediate and intense medical intervention.

It's not just one hobbyist opinion here, I am scientist, and very literate in scientific texts, and it is indeed a fact, that mixing species from different locations can expose them to diseases that they have no defense for.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,477
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA

orv

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
383
Location (City and/or State)
Aguanga, CA
A good article on the subject by an experienced vet:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/mixing.htm
Wow, Yvonne, the above article about the mixing of turtles/tortoises from various locals is definitive and concise. Reading these works by yourself, Mark and Tom leaves me with little option than to practise extreme care in bringing new tortoises into our habitat even following a prudent quarantine period. After reading the above article, I don't know how one can keep myriad tortoises in such close proximity. Can there be health hazards when, say CDTs from various, yet similar locals be brought together? Is this why we don't release captive individuals to the wild? How are populations affected when they are translocated in mass for habitat protection purposes? I'm thinking about those CDTs that were translocated from the Ft. Irwin area to an area where tanks and such wouldn't be a threat. I'm certainly not yet convinced that I have any idea what optimum habitats consist of. I'll continue to learn.
 

orv

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
383
Location (City and/or State)
Aguanga, CA
Wow, Yvonne, the above article about the mixing of turtles/tortoises from various locals is definitive and concise. Reading these works by yourself, Mark and Tom leaves me with little option than to practise extreme care in bringing new tortoises into our habitat even following a prudent quarantine period. After reading the above article, I don't know how one can keep myriad tortoises in such close proximity. Can there be health hazards when, say CDTs from various, yet similar locals be brought together? Is this why we don't release captive individuals to the wild? How are populations affected when they are translocated in mass for habitat protection purposes? I'm thinking about those CDTs that were translocated from the Ft. Irwin area to an area where tanks and such wouldn't be a threat. I'm certainly not yet convinced that I have any idea what optimum habitats consist of. I'll continue to learn.
I meannt to include Will in the above, sorry.
 
Top