Is this enclosure okay for a baby red foot?

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Oh gosh it'll be here tomorrow I'm so nervous x_x

I'm getting a baby from tortoisesupply.com so I'm been perfecting everything in the meantime.

I have a 110 qt rubbermaid, I guess about 30 inches long and 18 wide. Substrate is 2-3" cypress mulch. Plants are some live, some plastic... the live ones I checked are safe for torts, and come from a local nursery that only uses organic fertilizer and no pesticides. Slate tiles are for feeding on.

There are two plastic humid hides, one on each side. I have them lined with smooth stones (to try and avoid the baby sitting directly on moist substrate too much) and stuffed with some moist sphagnum moss. Overall humidity is around 70, heat in the 70-90 range. Styrofoam is to block its view and also ghetto insulation because it gets cold in here.

Lid is necessary because I have two cats. -_- I'm hoping there's enough openings for a good air flow still.

Uh I'm a bit worried there's TOO much stuff, but red foots seem to like feeling all hidden and not out in the open so should it be okay for a lil baby?

Thanks!

 

[zzzdanz]

You're gonna need a shallow water dish also...Looks good

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Oh yeah it's that big thing in the center filled with rocks. Hopefully it'll be safe.

 

[LindaF]

You might want to secure your lamps. My brother had a tort in a tank and just had the heat lamp and CHE resting on a screen. The cat knocked over the lights and there was a fire. They even lost the tort. (Fire wan't that bad, but the smoke damage was considerable). I had one fall over before and it left a scorch/burn mark on a chair. Those lights are HOT. My lights are now tied and secured with tie wraps. Congratulations on your baby red foot! And you are right - those little buggers LOVE to hide.

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Hm that is a good point! My lights usually aren't in a position to be knocked over. I'll strap it down somehow.

Though I plan, in the end to use lightless heat emitters for both sides, and just have the center flourescent for illumination.

ReptileUV makes these great ones- they give off plenty of heat, but they stay cool enough you can touch them! (It's a bit uncomfortable, but it won't burn.) So not much fire hazard either. Much safer

 

[abra]

Will the baby be getting any UVB/UVA rays with those? They're a necessity, I have heard MVBs are the best for all in one (heat, UVB/UVA rays) they're expensive but on lllreptile.com it's cheaper. I just ordered mine

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Yup! The fluorescent gives off good UVB (I have one of those things that measures it.) When it's big enough for a proper table I'll get a low level Megaray or somethin.

And I hope to have a lil outdoor pen for nice weather when he's bigger too.

 

[abra]

Oh and MVBs have light, also don't the normal lights hurt their eyes? I'm not sure but I got rid of my coil bulb because of that, but maybe it's just coil? I was wrong ->(And you should have one side that's cooler and one side that's for basking) Sorry!. With both of those lights covering the whole enclosure I'm not sure that would work?

 

[terryo]

All you need is a heat emitter and a long tube light. Low light, high warm humidity...that's it. You only need one really humid hide..I stuff mine with lots of moss for him to dig into. It looks like you put a lot of effort into your set up, and it looks really great.
http://www.redfoots.com/yenclose.htm I love this site for easy care....go to the top of the page where it says diet.

 

[abra]

What exact bulb do you have? Just wondering. Cause you said it was good

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Have a dim light over eating area is all you need for lights. There is 10 times too much light in there!

I guess you are getting a hatchling?

Yes it is way too busy in there. Don't keep the substrate so wet that you have to worry about fungus/shell-rot - get those stones out of there. The plainer the better.

Look at the caresheet for hatchlings in my sig. It has "started/kept" over 200 hatchlings.. it will work for you too.

Redfoots DO NOT need a cool side and a 'basking' side -- they need dim light and dark side with as little variation in temps as possible -- 82-85 is ideal -- no lower or higher is ideal!

The "simpler" the better!

The more I read what others are adding the more I have to correct it! How much actual redfoot hatchling-adult raising do these advice givers have? This is a Q? for the well-being of your redfoot and has nothing to do with who's right or wrong. It's about was is best for your new baby!

And thanks to TerryO for confirming.

NERD

 

[abra]

Sorry I was wrong I don't have a Redfoot I was just wondering, SORRY! Well at least we have Redfoot NERD to help

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Have a dim light over eating area is all you need for lights. There is 10 times too much light in there!

I guess you are getting a hatchling?

Yes it is way too busy in there. Don't keep the substrate so wet that you have to worry about fungus/shell-rot - get those stones out of there. The plainer the better.

Look at the caresheet for hatchlings in my sig. It has "started/kept" over 200 hatchlings.. it will work for you too.

Redfoots DO NOT need a cool side and a 'basking' side -- they need dim light and dark side with as little variation in temps as possible -- 82-85 is ideal -- no lower or higher is ideal!

The "simpler" the better!

The more I read what others are adding the more I have to correct it! How much actual redfoot hatchling-adult raising do these advice givers have? This is a Q? for the well-being of your redfoot and has nothing to do with who's right or wrong. It's about was is best for your new baby!

And thanks to TerryO for confirming.

NERD

This is actually my favorite part of keeping redfoots. It's just not too difficult. Keep it simple and you'll find they'll do great.

It's very tempting to overdo and overthink with them. I am always catching myself stressing over and making the enclosure more and more complicated just to realize that all I've done is take away floor space that my RF prefers. I have a lot of "duh" moments

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Hm o_o Lotsa info!

I admit, I ALWAYS overdo my vivs at first, then tend to take things out later as I figure out what works. XD; All my herps have been desert/grassland dwellers so I've never had a chance to design a foresty humid viv like this. I'll guess I'll take out one of the humid hides to make more room then. *ponder* Maybe a smaller water dish too?

The bright white light there is really only there temporarily to test out the temperatures. It's gonna be replaced with a second heat emitter when it arrives in the mail... hopefully in the next day or so, so it'll be nice and dim then. In the meantime I'll replace it with a red bulb, which I've read they can't see so it should do in a pinch. Then I guess I'll change it so both sides are 'warm' sides in the 80-85 range? (Yay for lamp dimmers! They make temperature adjustments so easy *_* )

The light in the center is a Zilla of some kind. It gives off UVB in the 20-25µW/cm² range which seems acceptable for 'forest shade'.

And I'm being careful to make sure the top level of the mulch stays dry, just the bottom level of substrate is actually wet. I'll be sure to monitor it carefully!

 

[Madkins007]

OK- simple vs. naturalized habitat. This is an ongoing debate between groups of people. I am firmly in the naturalized camp. Studies on many species, including reptiles, show over and over that brains develop better when they are challenged and there is an interest to the habitat. Offering naturalistic hides, substrates, places to clamber or climb, and so on should result in better cognitive development. This is a big reason why good zoos spend so much to make naturalistic habitats. There is a great chapter about this in the book "The Art of Keeping Snakes".

The more simplified versions are easier/cheaper to maintain, and one of the reasons most large-scale breeders use them. Habitat cleanliness is an important issue, but I have no problem keeping my naturalized habitat clean- just don't overdo it.

I would suggest that the benefits of a naturalistic habitat outweigh the simple maintenance issues for most of us small-scale keepers.

Even if there is no difference in the brain development (although there really is), I would argue that naturalistic habitats are more interesting for the keeper as long as they offer the right conditions to the torts.

If you are interested, another care sheet is available at the Tortoise Library in my signature below.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Is anyone interested in arguing?.. I'm sure not.

Used the same simple enclosure when I had the first 3 hatchlings 12 years ago... worked then and works now.. and as they have matured none have displayed any interest in eating their own babies or anything like that!

NERD

 

[jackrat]

Is anyone interested in arguing?.. I'm sure not.

Used the same simple enclosure when I had the first 3 hatchlings 12 years ago... worked then and works now.. and as they have matured none have displayed any interest in eating their own babies or anything like that!

NERD

TERRY,HELP!!!!! My redfoots have turned cannabalistic!!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Is anyone interested in arguing?.. I'm sure not.

Used the same simple enclosure when I had the first 3 hatchlings 12 years ago... worked then and works now.. and as they have matured none have displayed any interest in eating their own babies or anything like that!

NERD

TERRY,HELP!!!!! My redfoots have turned cannabalistic!!

You ain't gettin' anymore..........

Back on topic -

 

[SILVERSTAR]

so is it better to go simple and clean or more objects to keep clean, i have used paper towels and inside the hide i use dried grass but sumwat remoistened jus to keep things clean becuz i found that the more plants and things in there create pathogens,mold and attract bugs,i take him out everyday for rec,im not suggesting you keep your tort like mine cuz i have a seven month old star tortoise but wut im saying is simple works for me,keep it clean too.

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

OK- simple vs. naturalized habitat. This is an ongoing debate between groups of people. I am firmly in the naturalized camp. Studies on many species, including reptiles, show over and over that brains develop better when they are challenged and there is an interest to the habitat. Offering naturalistic hides, substrates, places to clamber or climb, and so on should result in better cognitive development. This is a big reason why good zoos spend so much to make naturalistic habitats. There is a great chapter about this in the book "The Art of Keeping Snakes".

The more simplified versions are easier/cheaper to maintain, and one of the reasons most large-scale breeders use them. Habitat cleanliness is an important issue, but I have no problem keeping my naturalized habitat clean- just don't overdo it.

I would suggest that the benefits of a naturalistic habitat outweigh the simple maintenance issues for most of us small-scale keepers.

Even if there is no difference in the brain development (although there really is), I would argue that naturalistic habitats are more interesting for the keeper as long as they offer the right conditions to the torts.

If you are interested, another care sheet is available at the Tortoise Library in my signature below.

Haha, thank you for the other take on the subject I was starting to get worried.

This is totally my view to be honest. I've seen similar arguments on bearded dragon forums and such... Especially American vs European keepers. Apparently in some countries you're required by LAW to give your herps naturalistic environments. It leads to interesting arguments!

Really, it just makes sense to me. Reminds me of the interesting experiments with rats raised in plain environments (nothing but four walls and food/water dishes) vs enriching ones (lots of toys and things to explore) and there's a huuuge difference in brain development.

And it's well known that kids who grow in too-sterile environments end up getting sick more! o_o But kids who can play in the dirt get stronger immune systems. You don't want filth, but you don't want 'spotlessly sterile' either. I think as long as you don't let feces build up, don't leave food to rot, and make sure there's no mold or bugs, you're good. It'll be trickier than my desert enclosures, but not impossible.