Grouchy man emerging for breakfast.

[jaizei]

Thank you! I totally understand this now. So I can also understand why people insist that, for example, Sulcata tortoises should be kept on sand, being "desert" tortoises!? So the case for Egyptian tortoises to be kept on oyster shell in either crushed or "rocks" form, is based on flawed "tradition"!?

I don't have experience with them so I can't say that it's flawed, but it does seem to be following the same path as other species. (no humidity, humid hide, humidity is ok/good as long as substrate isn't soaking wet on top)

soil type substrates seem to be more common in Europe instead of the oyster shell.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I have a feeling you are not going to get an answer to that question, Tammy.

It's actually a very good question I think

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I am not an expert by any means but what I understand from all of my research is that many very long time successful keepers and breeders of Egyptian tortoises keep them on crushed oyster shell. Many of us who are new keepers are learning from and replicating their success. I haven’t heard of any long term successful keepers keeping them on orchid bark while I know that is used very successfully for many other tortoises. I hope we hear from some of the long term Egyptian keepers in this thread.

The use of Orchid bark as a preferred substrate has been gathering momentum. But it's still relatively new as far as being recommended by the collective here.
(Relatively)
Out there on the internet, they're still blabbing about play sand, etc.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I personally kept Egyptian Tortoises from about 1993 to 2000 or so when I lived in CT. John Coakley (whom I believe to be the first person to breed the species in the US) also lived in CT then, and I visited him to gain knowledge prior to deciding to keep Egyptians. His kleinmanni were all kept on crushed oyster shells and were also in closed chambers.

John lived on the coast of CT where humidity can be quite high, and the reason for both the closed chambers and the oyster shells was to REDUCE the humidity in the tortoises' enclosures. It was thought back then that Egyptian Tortoises did not do well in humid environments, so the closed chambers were devised to keep out the humid coastal air, and the oyster shells were used as a substrate because they were said to actually absorb moisture from the air. Additionally, they are digestible if eaten by a tortoise either purposely or accidentally.

Seeing the success John was having, I went home determined to set my Egyptian Tortoises up in exactly the same way. So John Coakley may well be the source of the idea of crushed oyster shells as a substrate for Egyptian Tortoises, because John produced a lot of babies (from the 1980's to the present) and passed on his techniques to many people.

Very cool.
Thank you